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Thread: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

  1. #1

    Default Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    We have all thought about it. There is a hint that Oda may be setting up for a repeat of Marineford with Sabo instead of Ace.
    The reactions to the conclusion of the revolutionary raid on Marejois suggests that Sabo may have been captured.


    Lets go over the possibilities here:

    1. It's a red herring. Sabo did not end up captured, or if he did he will somehow escape or be used in a prisoner exchange with the revolutionaries. Either way, no Marineford 2 attempted public execution to draw out revolutionaries and Strawhats.

    2. There will be a kind of attempted Marineford 2 from the WG where they try to plan a public execution of Sabo in order to force the revolutionaries and Strawhats into a confrontation on the Marines terms, but it fails for some reason and the results are completely different from Marineford 1.

    3. Oda pulls a literal repeat of Marineford, involving the death of Sabo.


    Now scenario 1 would be good, 2 would depend on the execution but could possibly work, and 3 would in my opinion be terrible and seriously harm the manga in ways that would be hard to recover from.
    Ace was not that appealing character to begin with, and we really don't need Ace 2. Now I'm not saying Marineford was bad, it obviously wasn't, but it's just not going to work with Sabo as Ace 2.0.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Oda won't waste time retelling a whole arc, so I have no worry about Marineford 2.0.

    What I think will happen is that Hancock's capture and secret being told to the world will lead Luffy to rescue her in Mary Geoise. It won't be a new Marineford because no one knows Luffy is related to Hancock and no one expects anyone to come for her, so the arc will be much smaller in scope (no "trap to defeat an Yonko"), and lead us to explore things we couldn't explore otherwise, like slavery, the secrets of the Celestial Dragons, confrontation with CP-0, and finally addressing the stories of Bonnie and Kuma.

    As for Sabo and Vivi, they'll also be included in that somehow, but I don't think Sabo was captured at all. Either he's already dead (I doubt it), mistaken as dead (more likely), or has escaped but blamed on something terrible (like killing Cobra).

    My current theory is that Cobra was killed, Sabo saved Vivi from an assassination attempt but was blamed for everything, and Wapol leaked to the world that Vivi was one of the Straw Hats, so she's now a criminal.
    Last edited by Deicide; July 25th, 2021 at 09:53 AM.
    My Wano predictions: All Straw Hats will get fights in Wano, but not in Act 3; There will be 5 acts; The Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Yamato will become a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5 to issue a challenge; We are going to Mary Geoise after Wano.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    I feel like Sabo not being able to contact Dragon and the others imply he was caught, or at least trapped somewhere within Mary Geoise.

    Otherwise I don't see the point of the Revolutionaries invading the place from a narrative standpoint.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I feel like Sabo not being able to contact Dragon and the others imply he was caught, or at least trapped somewhere within Mary Geoise.

    Otherwise I don't see the point of the Revolutionaries invading the place from a narrative standpoint.
    There’s always the possibility of communication jamming or silence due to risk of interception.

    Another thing to consider is that Sabo being captured wouldn’t lead to his execution occurring in Mary Geoise. He most likely would be moved to a military stronghold or Impel Down rather than kept near the World Nobles.

    I think Hancock will be the reason for Mary Geoise arc because, as a slave, it makes sense to move and keep her there. Also, with no one knowing her connection to Luffy, the WGwould have no fear of someone of Yonko power bothering to rescue her.

    Another possibility is Vivi being the focus, thought I think in this case the connection to Luffy has been leaked out (by Wapol), and in that case the WG should also wary of Revolutionary involvement.
    My Wano predictions: All Straw Hats will get fights in Wano, but not in Act 3; There will be 5 acts; The Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Yamato will become a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5 to issue a challenge; We are going to Mary Geoise after Wano.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    It's not even a matter of "Marineford 2.0". After Wano, Luffy will either go to Elbaf, or the final war will begin...
    Every nation gets the government it deserves.---- Joseph de Maistre

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    I honestly think the final war/battle with be sorta like Marineford but bigger in scale. Though not sure if Sabo would be the one to trigger it, plus having a rescue arc wouldn't act for the final story arc of the manga. I don't think Sabo has been captured or killed, I think he escaped from whatever it was.

    Though I do like Deicide's theory about Hancock being captured, though I feel like that won't be very likely. I'm sure the World Government already knows about who she is, etc. That's just my thoughts anyway. And no I don't think it be an exact copy of Marinefold, just similar to it being super intense and epic.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    Though I do like Deicide's theory about Hancock being captured, though I feel like that won't be very likely. I'm sure the World Government already knows about who she is, etc.
    If you want some food for thought: Chapter 526 describes in detail how exactly Hancock's secret will be found.

    "When prisoners arrive, they are come throught the other side of these bars. There, they are stripped naked and put in Hell Water, which we boil at 100 degrees in iron pots. That works as sterilization, as well as a baptism bath to enter the prison."

    I have some theories as to why Hancock's past as a slave is not known by the government, especially considering their DFs should be a dead giveaway of their identities, but that's talk for another day.
    My Wano predictions: All Straw Hats will get fights in Wano, but not in Act 3; There will be 5 acts; The Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Yamato will become a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5 to issue a challenge; We are going to Mary Geoise after Wano.

  8. #8
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    I feel like Sabo is captured only difference is when Dragon shows up he destroys the place and the revolutionaries win. Doesn't matter if Luffy shows up or not. Oda isn't rehashing Marineford just to kill Sabo a brother of Luffy's he hasn't seen in like 12 years.

    Of course that wont be the end of that cuz the world government will strike back. Maybe they'll make their new HQ Alabasta.

    Definitely think Vivi will be targetted and Cobra is probably dead.
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  9. #9
    Arf. (ᵔᴥᵔ) FelRes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Wouldn't be surprised if Cobra is dead (or even just seemingly dead) and Sabo (captured or not) is being pinned as the assassin. Would be more interesting than a redone Marineford where Sabo anyway. Even if Sabo is saved in that scenario as a show of growth for Luffy it would just be boring. It's bad enough he survived the flashback and feels tacked on to the present story.

    Also I doubt Hancock is in any real trouble. They sent Koby of all people to capture her. The #1 Luffy fanboy confronting the #1 Luffy fangirl, they seem like they would cooperate with each other on the down low. I doubt her past as a slave will even be important in the future.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    I think Hancock will be the reason for Mary Geoise arc because, as a slave, it makes sense to move and keep her there. Also, with no one knowing her connection to Luffy, the WGwould have no fear of someone of Yonko power bothering to rescue her.

    Another possibility is Vivi being the focus, thought I think in this case the connection to Luffy has been leaked out (by Wapol), and in that case the WG should also wary of Revolutionary involvement.
    Hancock as the catalyst of such an arc would be weird since her relationship with Luffy is completely gag-based. Sabo or Vivi would be a way more personal motivation and I could actually see Luffy abandoning everything since that's his brother/former crewmate at stake.

    She could be involved as a guest assist a la Marco, but having her be the emotional focus when most of her character post-Luffy is comedy-based would be a bit hard to take in.

  11. #11
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Luffy does have some friendship with her but not strong enough bonds to drop everything to go save her. That'd be like Luffy going back to save Conis if he found out she were in trouble.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Hancock as the catalyst of such an arc would be weird since her relationship with Luffy is completely gag-based. Sabo or Vivi would be a way more personal motivation and I could actually see Luffy abandoning everything since that's his brother/former crewmate at stake.
    Luffy does care for Hancock and reckons he owes her big due to everything she's done for him in Impel Down/Marineford.
    Hancock is one of the few characters, alongside Jinbe, Ivankov and Bentham, that stood with Luffy when he was alone and in his direst moment. Their romantic relationship may be gag-based, but Luffy's consideration for her is dead serious, as evidenced by when he started call her by name (right at the start of Impel Down), as well as how serious he got when Magellan threatened to find out how he infiltrated the prison.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelRes View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if Cobra is dead (or even just seemingly dead) and Sabo (captured or not) is being pinned as the assassin. Would be more interesting than a redone Marineford where Sabo anyway. Even if Sabo is saved in that scenario as a show of growth for Luffy it would just be boring. It's bad enough he survived the flashback and feels tacked on to the present story.

    Also I doubt Hancock is in any real trouble. They sent Koby of all people to capture her. The #1 Luffy fanboy confronting the #1 Luffy fangirl, they seem like they would cooperate with each other on the down low.
    When push came to shove, Koby stood with the marines against Luffy in Ace's execution. His dream is to rise on the ranks and become an Admiral, and dreams are dead serious motivators in One Piece.

    Koby is a nobody in the hierarchy of that fleet. He's there to relay the events to us readers, but in the grand scheme of things he's powerless to do anything to help Hancock, even if he somehow finds out she knows Luffy, a fact that she will probably want to keep secret to the end, just like Luffy was willing to do for her in Impel Down.

    I doubt her past as a slave will even be important in the future.
    The moment that revelation was done, it was set in stone to become important later, IMO. Her story just can't continue without addressing the ghosts that still torment her. Her link to the ugliest aspect of the world was a story waiting to be told, and it became even more likely once FIshman Island flashback skipped Fisher Tiger's rampage in Mary Geoise entirely. We will see that scene in all of its pathos some day, and I dare say it will be throught Hancock's eyes.
    My Wano predictions: All Straw Hats will get fights in Wano, but not in Act 3; There will be 5 acts; The Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Yamato will become a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5 to issue a challenge; We are going to Mary Geoise after Wano.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    Luffy does care for Hancock and reckons he owes her big due to everything she's done for him in Impel Down/Marineford.
    Hancock is one of the few characters, alongside Jinbe, Ivankov and Bentham, that stood with Luffy when he was alone and in his direst moment. Their romantic relationship may be gag-based, but Luffy's consideration for her is dead serious, as evidenced by when he started call her by name (right at the start of Impel Down), as well as how serious he got when Magellan threatened to find out how he infiltrated the prison.
    The problem still lies in the nature of Hancock's role as a character and their relationship. She's pretty much a gag character in most scenes she appears, whether it's fawning over Luffy because of a ridiculous, specific disease, kicking puppies and baby seals for laughs or "looking so down on others that she looks up". Compared to every other Warlord sans Buggy, Hancock is very much comic relief, sorta like how Big Mom is a bit more comical compared to the other Emperors despite having serious strength.

    Luffy is her friend and she was vital to help him at points, sure, but not to the extent of people like Sabo, Vivi or even Shirahoshi, people with actual serious connections to Luffy. Again, just think about it: when Hancock is shown fanboying over Luffy, it's done in an incredibly exaggerated manner that's intended to make readers laugh, not much different than Barto's cult-like worshiping, whereas when Shirahoshi is shown fanboying over Luffy, it's because she was sheltered for a decade and Luffy was the only person she could rely to fulfill her dream of seeing a real forest up close, so the intention becomes that of eliciting pity and sympathy that's more fitting for an emotional core. Hancock could've been this as a former slave, if it weren't for the aforementioned love disease turning her relationship with Luffy into a joke.

    Now that doesn't mean one's role can't change, but then that requires a natural progression for the character. Kin'emon was pretty much a gag character until Zou happened, at which point his character became a bit more serious because an alliance to take down Kaido had to be formed and Luffy got a bigger understanding of who Kin'emon was, and by the time they reached Onigashima, Kin'emon went full leader mode and became central to Luffy's motivations. This was natural, gradual character building that Kin'emon benefited from due to his frequent screentime.

    Hancock has been offscreen throughout most of the New World, so having her suddenly be a big emotional deal would just come up from nowhere, as she's not particularly as close to Luffy as many other characters and their relationship has been mostly ignored.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    There's also the fact that Luffy is the only SH who even had actual interactions with Hancock, save for a brief Jinbe moment, so then you get the issue of characters fighting for someone they don't particularly know. At least with Sabo, Zoro, Robin and Franky got to know him a bit, and Vivi is, well. Vivi. At least half of the Straw Hats would be willing to risk their lives for her.

    If we need a Warlord slave to serve as an emotional core, then we have Kuma right there, especially considering his role into saving the Straw Hats and giving them the tools to get stronger.
    Last edited by King Cannon; July 25th, 2021 at 08:41 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    I can see the point of Marineford-type war between pirates and the Marines now that Luffy is strong enough to be a key player.

    What I can't see is Oda repeating the setup and conclusion. Especially the conclusion. The point of Marineford was that Luffy wasn't ready to play with the big names yet and needed to take a crippling loss to inspire him to get stronger. We don't need that anymore. Luffy's going head to head with Emperors now, and his ability to stay in the fight at all puts him close to the series' skill ceiling. There's not much further an Ace-like death could inspire him to go now, it's just going to be sadness and futility that even after the whole two years of training and New World saga he failed the same way again.

    A clash at New Marineford is also obviously going to be a climactic battle for the series, there's not going to be time after to mourn losses and vow to get stronger like there was the last time.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    The problem still lies in the nature of Hancock's role as a character and their relationship.
    Here's where your analysis has a big flaw: Yes, Hancock has been treated as a comedic character. But no, she's not a Buggy or a Bartolomeu. Neither Buggy nor Bartolomeu had terribly tragic backstories nor are haunted by horrible trauma that completely overtakes their characters and makes them live unhappy and in constant fear.

    Hancock is layered, and she's been layered from day one. She is three characters in one: she's a fawning lovestruck schoolgirl failing to win Luffy's affections, yes. She's also a haughty and selfish empress who kicks puppies and roasts people, yes. Both are comedic aspects of her. But she's also a traumatized girl who's so scared of feeling vulnerable she had to hide herself under layers of deception, and that's a powerful story setup to happen.

    Why wasn't it covered a decade ago? Because it was not the moment. But Oda seeded everything he needed back then. I invite everyone to reread Amazon Lily and Hancock's moments in Impel Down, now with the knowledge that the Warlord system was doomed to be abolished, and Amazon Lily was doomed to be invaded. Read Chapter 521, now with the warnings of Nyon, the wisest of the Kuja, on your mind. Rerad chapter 526 knowing that the description of what happens to every prisoner that enters Impel Down is foreshadowing to how Hancock's secret is being revealed to the world. In the same chapter, Luffy declares in no uncertain way: "Thank you for everything, Hancock! I will never forget this! I will pay this debt some day!"

    When Luffy and Hancock parted ways in Sabaody, I was sure that Hancock was not being left behind, her story purpose fulfilled. Instead, I was sure her story arc hadn't even began by then. Hancock is a unique character in the entire series in the sense that she's the only friend of Luffy that did everything for him without Luffy saving/helping her first. And that's because that crisis was meant to happen later.

    That's why I never gave up on her for over a dozen years. I knew her turn would come eventually, once the more pressing matters (like Marineford, timeskip, those pesky Yonko...) were settled and the story went back to the Celestial Dragons, slavery and the darkness behind the World Government.

    I got assured that this story would come when Fishman Island flashback skipped over Fisher Tiger's most important feat. Because it wasn't the moment to show it in its full emotional glory.

    I got even more certain when talks of Reverie started still in the last few chapters of Fishman Island, and even further when Fujitora's plot to dissolve the Warlord system became a running plot thread.

    It became even more likely to me when we finally got to the Reverie, which was a call back to the darkness of the world, and it got linked to the Warlord's abolition.

    Guess what spurred my full return to the forums (I was kinda absent all that time)? Chapter 956. That thing hit me right in the feels because I was predicting that huge raid on Amazon Lily a decade before.

    We are still a long way before that story gets full speed. I'm really anticipating the next intermissions for now, I don't expect huge reveals, but small hints of the inevitability that is Hancock's capture and secret exposed. Even that recent thing about Sun God Nika, savior of slaves, bringer of laugh, is another hint of it happening.

    And then she will be explored in full as the multi-layered character that she was always meant to be. She will be broken down to pieces and rebuilt over that story. That will be her character arc, set up over 500 chapters ago.

    So yeah, she's a gag character, but she's not just a gag character. And gag characters can have depth, and powerful emotional moments. We saw it with Bentham, who was just a gag character as well.

    Hancock will be the next Robin. And when Luffy finds out what happened to her, he will stop at nothing to repay his debt, because she's way more important to him than we were led to consider.

    There's also the fact that Luffy is the only SH who even had actual interactions with Hancock, save for a brief Jinbe moment, so then you get the issue of characters fighting for someone they don't particularly know.
    It doesn't matter. Once Captain says they are saving Hancock, they are saving Hancock, no matter how, where or why, and even that will be a powerful moment.

    Plus, Jinbe has more of a relationship to her than everyone realises. He's one of the few people in the world that knows of how much she cares for Luffy. And he doesn't know she's a slave. Yet. I actually predict that both Jinbe and Robin will have deep importance in the Mary Geoise arc.
    My Wano predictions: All Straw Hats will get fights in Wano, but not in Act 3; There will be 5 acts; The Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Yamato will become a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5 to issue a challenge; We are going to Mary Geoise after Wano.

  16. #16
    Arf. (ᵔᴥᵔ) FelRes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    When push came to shove, Koby stood with the marines against Luffy in Ace's execution. His dream is to rise on the ranks and become an Admiral, and dreams are dead serious motivators in One Piece.

    Koby is a nobody in the hierarchy of that fleet. He's there to relay the events to us readers, but in the grand scheme of things he's powerless to do anything to help Hancock, even if he somehow finds out she knows Luffy, a fact that she will probably want to keep secret to the end, just like Luffy was willing to do for her in Impel Down.
    Yeah but Koby doesn't follow extreme absolute justice, he's willing to call out when stuff goes too far like in that same war. Marines will be reformed end of series to reflect moral characters like him, Fujitora, Smoker, Tashigi, etc., so it's fair to say he'd break away from protocol under the right circumstances, meaning the task being heavily against his justice. He's officially willing to piss off Akainu even after seeing what he's like. Plus he's already working for an undercover unit, so he's presumably capable of working undercover ie with Hancock in whatever way benefits.

    Meanwhile you're also undervaluing Hancock. She's a powerful person leading a powerful nation of warriors, and you're suggesting she can't take care of herself and will somehow need Luffy to pause his journey to come to her rescue. And you're going on about her slave past still when it's already played its role in the story to flesh out how bad the world situation is and set up the Sun Pirates. We already saw her sit there and give exposition and grief over it with her sisters, it's done. Maybe it'll be brought up again when we learn about Nika and all that in the present, but not as focused as you've convinced yourself it should be. Don't really see why we would need to see Tiger's rampage either. He rampaged, he set people free, what more do you need from that.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by FelRes View Post
    Yeah but Koby doesn't follow extreme absolute justice, he's willing to call out when stuff goes too far like in that same war. Marines will be reformed end of series to reflect moral characters like him, Fujitora, Smoker, Tashigi, etc., so it's fair to say he'd break away from protocol under the right circumstances, meaning the task being heavily against his justice. He's officially willing to piss off Akainu even after seeing what he's like. Plus he's already working for an undercover unit, so he's presumably capable of working undercover ie with Hancock in whatever way benefits.
    Boa Hancock is the primary target of that fleet. And she’s no saint, she’s a dangerous pirate. Even if Koby learns she knows Luffy, he can’t get away with helping the primary target escape without consequences. Even Fujitora couldn’t get away with failing the whole operation on purpose. The idea that Joby will bond with Hancock and save her from capture is ridiculous in so many levels, it’s as if the marines had a free pass for gross incompetence. “Oh, our main target escaped mysteriously, we failed I guess”.

    Meanwhile you're also undervaluing Hancock. She's a powerful person leading a powerful nation of warriors, and you're suggesting she can't take care of herself and will somehow need Luffy to pause his journey to come to her rescue. And you're going on about her slave past still when it's already played its role in the story to flesh out how bad the world situation is and set up the Sun Pirates. We already saw her sit there and give exposition and grief over it with her sisters, it's done. Maybe it'll be brought up again when we learn about Nika and all that in the present, but not as focused as you've convinced yourself it should be. Don't really see why we would need to see Tiger's rampage either. He rampaged, he set people free, what more do you need from that.
    I’m not undervaluing her because characters aren’t valued solely by their skill to kick butt.
    Buggy will evade the marines because he’s willing to sacrifice followers.
    Mihawk will escape because he’s a loner.
    Weevil only needs to care for her mother.
    But Hancock has a whole stationary nation to care about. She was put in a war of attrition with the world’s greatest power, and unless you think she’s willing to slip away while leaving her subjects to suffer, she’s staying and fighting to the bitter end. I find it extremely likely that she will either surrender in exchange for her people or staying behind to ensure the Kuja can evacuate. Either way, she’s losing because there’s more important things than her caring only about her own survival.

    Tragedy is when One Piece is at its best, and Boa Hancock has TRAGEDY written all over her story. Oda set it up all ten years ago, and I’m sure that story will happen. Anyone who outright dismisses it as “oh, it already played its role, it was just for one chapter to flesh out a joke character” is deluding oneself.

    “Meanwhile... Hancock will... Sabo will... Vivi will...”

    Oda’s words. I don’t see anyone ever deny Sabo and Vivi are in danger. But Hancock...? Oh, it’s nothing. Ignore the mega Buster Call on her island that was foreshadowed 12 years ago! It will be played for laughs when Koby and Hancock bond over tea and Luffy stories!
    My Wano predictions: All Straw Hats will get fights in Wano, but not in Act 3; There will be 5 acts; The Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Yamato will become a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5 to issue a challenge; We are going to Mary Geoise after Wano.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    A big and critical difference between Sabo and Ace lies in who holds the Vivre card, in the Marineford saga, it was Luffy who had Ace's card, so he was always able to find him no matter where he was taken, Ace was the arc's northstar in a sense.

    However, Luffy doesn't have Sabo's card, it's the opposite, Sabo has had Luffy's vivre card since the end of Dressrosa. So in order for Sabo to be the catalyst for the SHs heading to war, he will have to find Luffy 1st. This action could happen as early as the end of Wano imo.

    Now obviously, it's entirely possible that he gives it to someone else instead, he could have been caught in Mary Geoise after giving it to Vivi for example, or he could have rescued her from a yet-unseen threat, and taken her to see Luffy with him.

    The possibilities of who drags Luffy into war and how are endless, but the start of any theory has to be someone finding Luffy and filling him in on whatever we don't know about the world outside Wano rn.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Rean View Post
    A big and critical difference between Sabo and Ace lies in who holds the Vivre card, in the Marineford saga, it was Luffy who had Ace's card, so he was always able to find him no matter where he was taken, Ace was the arc's northstar in a sense.

    However, Luffy doesn't have Sabo's card, it's the opposite, Sabo has had Luffy's vivre card since the end of Dressrosa. So in order for Sabo to be the catalyst for the SHs heading to war, he will have to find Luffy 1st. This action could happen as early as the end of Wano imo.

    Now obviously, it's entirely possible that he gives it to someone else instead, he could have been caught in Mary Geoise after giving it to Vivi for example, or he could have rescued her from a yet-unseen threat, and taken her to see Luffy with him.

    The possibilities of who drags Luffy into war and how are endless, but the start of any theory has to be someone finding Luffy and filling him in on whatever we don't know about the world outside Wano rn.
    This is a good point. When Sabo made that Vivre Card I feared it could eventually end up in wrong hands. Either the WG, or BB. That could even be the reason why there could be conflict happening in Laugh Tale, with multiple parties reaching it at the same time. Sabo being captured, even temporarily, could lead to a “reverse Marineford” in which everyone is gunning for Luffy instead.
    My Wano predictions: All Straw Hats will get fights in Wano, but not in Act 3; There will be 5 acts; The Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Yamato will become a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5 to issue a challenge; We are going to Mary Geoise after Wano.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Sabo, Ace and Marineford 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    This is a good point. When Sabo made that Vivre Card I feared it could eventually end up in wrong hands. Either the WG, or BB. That could even be the reason why there could be conflict happening in Laugh Tale, with multiple parties reaching it at the same time. Sabo being captured, even temporarily, could lead to a “reverse Marineford” in which everyone is gunning for Luffy instead.
    My money would be on BB. And he has 7 other vivre cards to pick from too (from the SH fleets)!

    I think the highest echelons of the WG probably know about Laugh Tale and everything that's on it, so they would probably not need a vivre card to get there, there's a reason they erased a whole century from history after all! Worst case scenario they can just form a defensive wall of sorts right after Lodestar Island as a blocking mechanism and wait for Luffy and any other pirates there.

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