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Thread: Yamato’s role in the story.

  1. #41

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DollarScholar View Post
    Overlooked analogy for Yamatos Oden-thing is Zoro originally developing the Santoryu in order to honor Kuina, and pushing himself to become a swordsman using her sword in order to fulfill her dream.
    Now once Zoro joins Luffy his motivations develop and we basically never hear of Kuina again.
    I completely forgotten about this! This is a very good analogy and why it proves that Yamato pretending to be Oden is a similar thing.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DollarScholar View Post
    Calling it a quirk and comparing it with usopps cowardice is in itself presumptions as it's not at all clear this is how Oda thinks of it. As of now it's being played more as a serious trait. Until we see it played off for comedic effectsi would hold off with comparing it to pantie requests or Sanjis nosebleed.
    Have you not read the chapters where it was played for comedic effect?

    A gag can have the character being serious while others react to it and that be the joke.

    When Robin makes her morbid comments about what deadly situation her crew mates might be in and Usopp reacts on horror, that's the joke.

    Brook is completely serious when he requests panties. Its why he was so disappointed when he also got men's underwear during the 2 years of training.

    The nosebleed thing is more of humor in Asia but it's basically horny blys have high blood pressure and thus have nosebleeds. Therefore, horny pervs = nosebleeds and that's the gag. Sanji is genuinely reacting to sexy women that way.

    They seem perfectly fine to compare to Yamato's I am Oden declarations and Shinobu and Momo recoil in horror looking at him like he's crazy. Same when Beast pirates who are more than use to Yamato saying this replying that it makes no sense.

    There all gags. Doesn't matter if its a serious trait.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Well like I said in my other reply to you that is not a quirk really.

    It was a negative self defense mechanism based on her particular situation. Its not a character trait.
    And like I mentioned before Yamato wanting to be like Oden can be a self-mechanism as well. And you even proved my point with stating how bad her past was. So, it makes sense to pretend to be Oden to hide away from the trauma.

    I remember Robin's first scene on the Going Merry asking to be a strawhat being social as fuck. She easily charmed Sanji, won over Nami, then playfully corralled Chopper Luffy, and Usopp, and she got Luffy's approval from the get go. A simple statement to Zoro had him no longer press the matter. If Vivi was on the ship, Robin probably would've convinced her too in due time. I mean hell, once Vivi found out she was a strawhat she just said meh, Luffy has his reasons.
    That was more manipulation than socializing though. Like what I mean by anti-social is that she felt distant from the crew before water 7. But after Water 7 she started to smile more and be herself.

    The examples you gave really didn't feel compelling to me and i've been saying we really shouldn't compare Yamato's situation to the rest of the strawhats cuz they are starkly different.
    So, it's not okay for me to compare? But you are comparing the Strawhats quirks to fit your narrative, and I'm trying to do the same thing, as to me it is more similar that something played for laughs.

    Also I'm not saying Yamato will never drop the Oden shtick. I'm just saying I don't think it's the problem you think it is.
    Again, I don't see it as a problem. I see it as more of her growing up as a character in the story.

    There doesn't need to be some moment of Yamato realizing he really should embrace being himself cuz if we're being honest he already is.
    But Yamato is not embracing herself at all. I don't see what you seeing, I just see her pretending to be someone she is not. And as we discussed may even be because of trauma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    There all gags. Doesn't matter if its a serious trait.
    I mean, at some points it is for humor, but for other times it is a serious moment. That's how I seen it.

    Like how she had a serious talk with Momo about it, that was not played for laughs.

    Like how she told Luffy she is a man because Oden was, that was not played for laughs.

    This all relates to her Oden thing. Sure there were other times were it was sorta of a gag like with Ulti. But this is more of a trait that needs character development like how I mentioned with Nami. It can be a coping mechanism like how Nami hated pirates. We just don't know exactly, but it's leading more to something important.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    And that is very unhealthy for their mental health and them not accepting themselves.
    I agree but that doesn't mean these ppl don't exist. I brought them up in relation to Yamato's situation. There is an obvious comparison there.

    Given that One Piece isn't a senien manga though, I'm pretty sure Oda is not going to dive in to the social and psychological ramifications of that behavior so he plays it for gags or uses it as positive reinforcement.

    Not at any time is Yamato saying he is Oden viewed as a negative trait or something wrong to aspire to. At best characters reply no you're not or that doesn't make sense. Yamato addresses that and then keeps on self-identifying as Oden.


    Except I don't hate it? I never said once I hate it.
    I never said anything about hate or you hating it though.

    I said you're making up a solution to something that isn't a problem cuz you don't like it.
    That's you making assumptions. I'm just observing the story and predicting what will happen next.
    Okay so you don't dislike it, you just think this is just the next step in Yamato's character development. Cool.

    I just dont see it as necessary. Which is why I said its something that Oda may just keep on doing treating it as a character quirk not a character flaw.


    I can't see Oda keeping it for the rest of the story.
    That's okay but if he does then that'll be reality and you will see it.
    We never even had a direct statement from Oda thoughts on the whole Oden cosplaying thing.
    Do we need one? Did Oda ever address Sanji being a perv? Or Brook? Or any other weird idiosyncrasies other characters have? Oda doesn't need to comment on everything for us to make predictions.



    Exactly. That's the same thing with Yamato, with her wanting to be Oden. Hers isn't a quirk either, it is similar to Nami. I bet Yamato is using the whole Oden thing as a coping mechanism due to how Kaido treated her.
    I don't see the similarities at all. They're not the same the way I view it. One was demonstrably negative and the other is used as a positive.

    The Kaido treatment and coping mechanism speculation is possible but I don't see evidence for that until the flashback.





    Exactly, that's why it's crucial for her to become herself and be Yamato and not Oden. It is part of character development and not just a personality trait. You proved my point with this.
    You say become herself but I'm pretty sure Yamato already is who he wants to be.

    I'm not sure how Yamato arguably having the worst childhood proves your point at all. You keep saying he'll drop the Oden shtick and that'll be character development. I'm saying it's character quirk and will continue on like all other strawhat (and other characters for that matter) character quirks.

    Sanji had WCI and his character development was trusting more in his crewmates to do things he couldn't (Robin vs. Black Maria). Even after almost getting married he didn't drop being a perv or swooning over Nami and Robin cuz its not going away.


    I agree with this. But hell Ussop has became more courageous throughout the series too. So, even that "quirk" has been changed. Sure he still gets scared, but he's became a much stronger person mentally.
    I would call it inconsistent but Oda has to find a balance between Usopp's quirk that is either a gag or instinctual character trait and his character development and goal.
    He still acts cowardly but he's progressed to choosing to be in the middle of madness to help his friends. The anime actually covered some of this when Usopp tried to escape that island to go help Luffy before the 2 years message.

    Thing is though, Usopp's usual first reaction will always be yelling and freaking out at an enemy of anything unknown, and he'll keep having can't go to that island disease cuz for some or many they're funny Usopp gags.
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  5. #45

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Let me put it like this: if Oda intends to keep this part of Yamato, then I would prefer it to be done as a quirk, something that's not treated too seriously by the other characters and is usually met with sighs or dismissal.

    Or it can be done seriously, and be part of Yamatos character development. He grows out of it.

    What I absolutely cannot accept, is Oda keeping it and portraying it in a way that's meant to be "interesting", like we are supposed to LIKE this side of Yamato and find it "moving" because it makes him complex or whatever.

    I don't want any attempts at creating tense, emotional moments involving this trait. Zero "I AM KUZOKI ODEN" -tearjerkers. I will never be moved by it, because it's really stupid and Oden SUCKS and I just want to forget about him.


  6. #46
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    It matters.
    No.

    I don't think you having a problem with Yamato's Oden shtick matters. If Oda sees it as a quirk and plays it for jokes that's what it is. All this stuff about Yamato being inauthentic and keeping up the gag until the end of the story is your problem. You gotta find a way to deal with that.


    Every quirk that the SHs have comes from being authentic. They all have their owns thoughts, desires, and habits. None of them involve pretending to be anyone other than themselves. I can't think of any leading characters who spend their lives pretending to be someone that they aren't. Everything we've learned about Luffy and his crew makes us believe that they value people for who they are, not who they pretend to be.
    This guideline of authenticity that you say the strawhats must have is something you made up. Its not real. Its not a rule. It doesn't actually exist.

    I could go in to the inauthentic things Luffy and Sanji have with their mentors/role models but it doesn't matter.



    We must be interpreting this manga differently.
    Definitely
    To me it's mostly about the value of friendship. It's hard to be friends with someone who isn't honest about who they are or what they want.
    Only of you consider Yamato's Oden quirk dishonesty.
    I can't see Luffy allowing someone in his crew who can't even acknowledge who they are and what they want themselves. Yamato acknowledging who he is and what he wants is the only way I can see that happening.
    Again with this what you see Luffy allowing stuff.

    Good luck with that.

    If he never gets to that point, then I think that does effectively prevent him from joining as a crew mate. He could still sail with them like Law or Kinemon as an ally, but not as a SH.
    I guess you'll be at a crossroads if Yamato doesn't drop the Oden shtick and joins the crew.

    Cuz just saying what you think will happen doesn't mean its even likely to happen.



    [Quote]Otherwise, we're left to believe that it's ok to be a crew mate that doesn't acknowledge your own personal thoughts, wishes, or limitations.[/quote)
    If that's what you take away from it, thats what you take away from it.


    then what are we left to think?
    Well YOU already said Yamato would be inauthentic and then YOU said Yamato would be a crew mate that doesn't acknowledge his own wishes, personal thoughts, or limitations.

    So thats what YOU would be left to think apparently.

    Reading all that though makes me think you don't understand the gag about it at all.


    That's the thing, though. Quirks are always there. They don't end, even when the story does. Will Luffy stop liking meat? Will Zoro still get lost? Will Franky still like cola? If this truly is a quirk like the other SH's, then he'll always be pretending to be Oden, which doesn't sound like healthy development for a main character.
    Then I guess for you it wont be seen as healthy development.

    Its just your take on it if it goes that way.

    I agree that it could potentially lessen, but that would mean it's not a quirk, just a trait that he's working to overcome.
    Thats why I compared it to Usopp.

    Cuz I think even when he becomes a brave warrior of the sea he'll still have his cowardly traits. He'll probably become some mix of Buggy and himself. Believing his own hype, still recognizing when he's in too deep, prepared to run away at a moment's notice etc.

    I highly doubt Usopp is gonna become a brave warrior of the sea to the point he's as cool as Sanji and Zoro or outright looming for fights and rampaging everywhere like Luffy. He's still gonna be Usopp at the end of the day.

    Unfortunately, he just did the Odean thing again last chapter and hasn't shown any interest in trying to establish who he is yet.
    Well like I said before to someone else. The Oden thing is either played for gags or as a positive confident declaration.

    Last chap was the now predictable declaration thing that he's done at least half a dozen times by now.

    Maybe he'll get some more development in a flashback or when Luffy arrives, but for now it's still all Oden all the time.
    I expect a flashback so we shall see.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by DollarScholar View Post
    Overlooked analogy for Yamatos Oden-thing is Zoro originally developing the Santoryu in order to honor Kuina, and pushing himself to become a swordsman using her sword in order to fulfill her dream.
    Now once Zoro joins Luffy his motivations develop and we basically never hear of Kuina again.
    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    I completely forgotten about this! This is a very good analogy and why it proves that Yamato pretending to be Oden is a similar thing.

    This is why I keep saying you cant really compare Yamato - Oden to a y of the other strawhats in that way.

    We haven't heard about Bellmere, Usopp's mom, Zeff (until WCI), Saul or Olivia, Laboon or Yorki since they joined the crew. Its not a surprise we havent heard of Kuina other than the fact Tashigi looks like her and Zoro cant bring himself to fight her.

    The strawhats aren't characters obsessed over their sad pasts. Their pasts motivate them.

    Oden's death is not Yamato's tragic moment of his sad past. That's part of the inspiration for who he is today
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  7. #47

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    I never said anything about hate or you hating it though.
    That's pretty ironic because you just assume you don't like it in the next line:

    I said you're making up a solution to something that isn't a problem cuz you don't like it.
    >_>

    Okay so you don't dislike it, you just think this is just the next step in Yamato's character development. Cool.
    Though you finally admit I don't dislike it. I think it's cute, but I think it's for character development that's all.

    Do we need one?
    You are the one the mentioned that there was confirmation from Oda in this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Clearly Oda doesn't think the whole I am Oden thing hurts Yamato as a character and if fan polls, SBS, fan letters from Japanese is all he has to go by he definitely thinks the fans love the character as is. He has his plans they could entail Yamato moving past Oden but seeing what he's done before I could see Oda keeping it until the end of the story.
    I was just following up to what you were saying, like I want to see evidence of what you are talking about. How do you know Oda doesn't think this hurts Yamato when there was not any confirmation, yet you try to say there is? I was asking that, and you took it clearly the wrong way, and now contradict your own statement.


    Anyways, I'm just gonna agree to disagree about this. You have your viewpoint and I have mine, and we just repeating ourselves, so want to move on! It was a nice discussion! o:

    Either way, I be happy with whatever Oda does for the manga, I'm just prediction and analyzing the story xD

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    And like I mentioned before Yamato wanting to be like Oden can be a self-mechanism as well.
    Yeah and it still doesn't make sense to me
    And you even proved my point with stating how bad her past was. So, it makes sense to pretend to be Oden to hide away from the trauma.
    I think you have sequence of events confused.

    Yamato saw Oden die and how he died and was inspired, then found his journal and read it. That's what led him down the path of I want to be Oden.

    His sad childhood began right after that. He went to Kuri to try and save Toki and Momo. Kaido is the one that brought him to the capital at the time.

    The whole trying to kill Kaido, escape Wano, being cuffed happened during the spam of 20 years.

    Yamato's flashback will detail more like how he maintained being a good person in the first place (it wasn't cuz of Oden or his journal).

    I don't see how the Oden quirk is a self defense mechanism like Nami's.


    That was more manipulation than socializing though. Like what I mean by anti-social is that she felt distant from the crew before water 7. But after Water 7 she started to smile more and be herself.
    She felt like a full fledged strawhat during Skypeia. That's when Oda rrally started exploring her character. She's still pretty quiet. To me she was always herself. I never saw ger as anti-social.


    So, it's not okay for me to compare? But you are comparing the Strawhats quirks to fit your narrative, and I'm trying to do the same thing, as to me it is more similar that something played for laughs.
    The quirks fit cuz they're just jokes.

    Its not just the strawhats, if you want I'll compare Yamato's Oden quirk to Vergo's sloppy eating quirk. They're just quirks. Not that big of a deal.

    The mentor/role model comparisons are bad cuz Yamato never met Oden. That's why I brought up Wiper and Kalgara as a better comparison.

    You can't say oh Law never dressed up as Corazon when Law actually spent time with him, was protected by him, and died saving him.

    Yamato doesn't have that kind of relationship with Oden.

    Thats where the comparison falls a part.




    But Yamato is not embracing herself at all. I don't see what you seeing
    Okay so you don't see any sign of it.

    I just see her pretending to be someone she is not. And as we discussed may even be because of trauma.
    Well I guess if Oda keeps up the gag and doesn't drop it you'll just have to make sense of it in your own way instead of seeing it as that.


    I mean, at some points it is for humor, but for other times it is a serious moment. That's how I seen it.
    Yeah, I said its either gags or declaring he's Oden.

    Other than clothing and saying it in what way is Yamato actually being like Oden?

    Like how she had a serious talk with Momo about it, that was not played for laughs.
    You mean when Momo recoiled in horror and though he was crazy?

    Was hilarious.

    Like how she told Luffy she is a man because Oden was, that was not played for laughs.
    Exposition dump upon introduction and first meeting the main character.

    This all relates to her Oden thing. Sure there were other times were it was sorta of a gag like with Ulti. But this is more of a trait that needs character development like how I mentioned with Nami. It can be a coping mechanism like how Nami hated pirates. We just don't know exactly, but it's leading more to something important.
    All those things I mentioned were all gags.

    I don't see anything in the story pointing to Yamato dropping it or any sort of unhappiness with who he thinks he is.

    With Nami it was totally negative fueled by hatred and fear. That doesnt seem to be the case with Yamato at all.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by DollarScholar View Post
    Let me put it like this: if Oda intends to keep this part of Yamato, then I would prefer it to be done as a quirk, something that's not treated too seriously by the other characters and is usually met with sighs or dismissal.

    Or it can be done seriously, and be part of Yamatos character development. He grows out of it.

    What I absolutely cannot accept, is Oda keeping it and portraying it in a way that's meant to be "interesting", like we are supposed to LIKE this side of Yamato and find it "moving" because it makes him complex or whatever.

    I don't want any attempts at creating tense, emotional moments involving this trait. Zero "I AM KUZOKI ODEN" -tearjerkers. I will never be moved by it, because it's really stupid and Oden SUCKS and I just want to forget about him.
    Seems like a quirk to me. Never seen any signs of Oda portraying it as interesting.

    Still don't get the Oden hate though.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    That's pretty ironic because you just assume you don't like it in the next line:


    >_>
    I just corrected you cuz you used the word hate. That was totally out of nowhere. I used the word dislike.

    But yeah you never said you disliked it okay.


    Though you finally admit I don't dislike it. I think it's cute, but I think it's for character development that's all.
    I'm replying to 3 ppl on this topic. 2 dislike it. One cuz of Oden disdain and the other cuz he thinks it makes the character inauthentic and dishonest. Its cute that you think I'd really keep all your reasons straight as I reply to them.


    You are the one the mentioned that there was confirmation from Oda in this post:
    Nothing in that post is about getting confirmation from Oda.

    I'm talking about potential feedback Oda would get. I'm pretty sure he doesn't know theres a lot of hate for Oden same way he doesn't know there's dislike for Yamato wanting to be Oden cuz what he has to go off of are all things that say the opposite of that as far as we know.

    I was just following up to what you were saying, like I want to see evidence of what you are talking about. How do you know Oda doesn't think this hurts Yamato when there was not any confirmation, yet you try to say there is?
    So you're saying Oda purposely wrote something to "hurt" the character of Yamato? I'm not understanding what alternatives you think are going on here.

    The idea that something hurts the character is entirely fan made up based off what they don't like.

    Can you explain how Oda would know based off that person's reasoning?

    I was asking that, and you took it clearly the wrong way, and now contradict your own statement.
    I think you got confused in what I was saying.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  9. #49

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    I don't juts dislike it because of Oden-hate.

    1. I dislike the idea of a Strawhat who is larping as someone else. It's a stupid trait in itself.
    2. I don't find Yamatos obsession with Oden believable. It's random and makes no sense.
    3. We have had enough of Oden. I don't want to be constantly reminded of how awesome Kuzoki Oden is, Oda failed to justify the massive pedestal Oden was placed on and we don't need ANOTHER character and especially not another Strawhat who's entire purpose is to serve as fodder for Odens greatness.


  10. #50
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DollarScholar View Post
    I don't juts dislike it because of Oden-hate.

    1. I dislike the idea of a Strawhat who is larping as someone else. It's a stupid trait in itself.
    Ok, I get this. The concept isn't an immediate turn off for me
    2. I don't find Yamatos obsession with Oden believable. It's random and makes no sense.
    I think a flashback would flesh a few more things out but the basics are pretty much there. Probably just need to know a bit more about what drove Yamato to liking Oden. Like why doesn't he idolize his father or Orochi or some other samurai.
    3. We have had enough of Oden. I don't want to be constantly reminded of how awesome Kuzoki Oden is, Oda failed to justify the massive pedestal Oden was placed on and we don't need ANOTHER character and especially not another Strawhat who's entire purpose is to serve as fodder for Odens greatness.
    LOL. This is Oden hate and this reason got the most words dedicated to it but ok.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  11. #51

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Yeah and it still doesn't make sense to me

    I think you have sequence of events confused.

    Yamato saw Oden die and how he died and was inspired, then found his journal and read it. That's what led him down the path of I want to be Oden.

    His sad childhood began right after that. He went to Kuri to try and save Toki and Momo. Kaido is the one that brought him to the capital at the time.

    The whole trying to kill Kaido, escape Wano, being cuffed happened during the spam of 20 years.

    Yamato's flashback will detail more like how he maintained being a good person in the first place (it wasn't cuz of Oden or his journal).

    I don't see how the Oden quirk is a self defense mechanism like Nami's.
    I guess to me it feels like Yamato has been abused her entire life even before she found his journal and saw his death. But we don't know yet what happened. I'm just merely speculating on what you said on how it can be a coping mechanism, as I don't see it the same as let's say Brook asking for panties! I'm sure Brook will ask Yamato too, it be hilarious XD

    She felt like a full fledged strawhat during Skypeia. That's when Oda rrally started exploring her character. She's still pretty quiet. To me she was always herself. I never saw ger as anti-social.
    Hmm. Maybe I just need to reread the whole series. I know after Water 7 she showed more of her emotions and being at ease.

    The quirks fit cuz they're just jokes.

    Its not just the strawhats, if you want I'll compare Yamato's Oden quirk to Vergo's sloppy eating quirk. They're just quirks. Not that big of a deal.

    The mentor/role model comparisons are bad cuz Yamato never met Oden. That's why I brought up Wiper and Kalgara as a better comparison.

    You can't say oh Law never dressed up as Corazon when Law actually spent time with him, was protected by him, and died saving him.

    Yamato doesn't have that kind of relationship with Oden.

    Thats where the comparison falls a part.
    I'm not talking about anything related to a mentor/role model comparison. I met by comparison as in I'm making analogies of other Strawhats to how it fits with Yamato, and you're doing the same thing. So, both our analogies can prove our own theories/speculation. You saying it's supposed to be quirk like Brook or Sanji, and I'm saying it's for character development.

    You mean when Momo recoiled in horror and though he was crazy?

    Was hilarious.
    I meant after that. And yes I do agree that was hilarious with Momo's reaction! But I met after where Yamato explains herself to Momo about it.

    Exposition dump upon introduction and first meeting the main character.
    Yes, but again if it was a quirk it would not be part of the introduction. Zoro getting lost was not part of him meeting Luffy, for example.

    I don't see anything in the story pointing to Yamato dropping it or any sort of unhappiness with who he thinks he is.
    Well, she did mention that she is Yamato several chapters ago, so I see that as character progression. I mean pretending someone you not can make you happy, but deep inside can be a coping mechanism. It's like how I pretended I was not Polish because of bullies that were Polish and bad family. Sure it can be positive to pretend to be someone I'm not, but in the end I became more happier by accepting myself and embracing my culture. This may or may not be the same for Yamato, as I don't know how deep Oda will have it.

    Still don't get the Oden hate though.
    I don't hate Oden. He grew on me, when we first met him in the manga he was ehh, but he improved as a character throughout his entire flashback.

    I'm replying to 3 ppl on this topic. 2 dislike it. One cuz of Oden disdain and the other cuz he thinks it makes the character inauthentic and dishonest. Its cute that you think I'd really keep all your reasons straight as I reply to them.
    Best way to remember me -- Think of me as the Sexy Starla with my avatar seducing you! (Just playing around.)

    I also used to have a cute Yamato avatar which you probably remember me more by, possibly. I really do like Yamato, I probably should find more fanart of her.

    Or better yet, I'm one of the trans girls on AP that is very focal about her trans status. That be easier to remember my posts, I think! >~<
    Last edited by starlalilymoon; July 24th, 2021 at 06:58 PM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    No.

    I don't think you having a problem with Yamato's Oden shtick matters. If Oda sees it as a quirk and plays it for jokes that's what it is. All this stuff about Yamato being inauthentic and keeping up the gag until the end of the story is your problem. You gotta find a way to deal with that.
    It wouldn't just be my problem. Trapping a character in a role that will never see them grow or acknowledge their own thoughts and desires sounds like some form of Kanjuroish hell to me. Him just playing a role and never growing beyond it? Nah.

    This guideline of authenticity that you say the strawhats must have is something you made up. Its not real. Its not a rule. It doesn't actually exist.

    I could go in to the inauthentic things Luffy and Sanji have with their mentors/role models but it doesn't matter.
    What are some inauthentic quirks that the SHs have then? The whole point of a quirk is that it's part of someone's personality and authentic to who they are.

    Only of you consider Yamato's Oden quirk dishonesty.
    Not being who you are and trying to be someone else. Yup. Sounds like some dishonesty in there somewhere.

    Again with this what you see Luffy allowing stuff.

    Good luck with that.
    OP fandom is all about what readers think based on what they want or read from characters. I imagine that's why you're also here voicing your thoughts and opinions.

    I guess you'll be at a crossroads if Yamato doesn't drop the Oden shtick and joins the crew.
    Cuz just saying what you think will happen doesn't mean its even likely to happen.
    I missed the part where I claimed to be God and demanded that everything happen just the way that I wanted. :|

    If that's what you take away from it, thats what you take away from it.
    So insightful. Lol

    Well YOU already said Yamato would be inauthentic and then YOU said Yamato would be a crew mate that doesn't acknowledge his own wishes, personal thoughts, or limitations.

    So thats what YOU would be left to think apparently.

    Reading all that though makes me think you don't understand the gag about it at all.
    Not sure what all the "YOU" in caps are supposed to mean. If your point is to tell me that it's my opinion, then I kinda know...since I'm the one that said it. And the Oden thing hasn't been played as a gag. Queen and his red bean soup has been played for gag. Ulti and Pay-pay's relationship has been played for gags. Kinemon and his master strategy has been played for gags. Tons of other characters have gotten traditional gags. Yamato isn't one of them.

    Then I guess for you it wont be seen as healthy development.

    Its just your take on it if it goes that way.
    It is my take...since I'm the one that said it...

    Thats why I compared it to Usopp.

    Cuz I think even when he becomes a brave warrior of the sea he'll still have his cowardly traits. He'll probably become some mix of Buggy and himself. Believing his own hype, still recognizing when he's in too deep, prepared to run away at a moment's notice etc.

    I highly doubt Usopp is gonna become a brave warrior of the sea to the point he's as cool as Sanji and Zoro or outright looming for fights and rampaging everywhere like Luffy. He's still gonna be Usopp at the end of the day.
    I can definitely see Usopp still having elements of being cowardly after the series as well because that's just how he is. It seems different to doom a character to always trying to be someone they aren't as a quirk, though. It's like they can never grow beyond themselves and we've definitely seen that with Usopp. Like I said earlier, it would be like playing a role like Kanjuro.

    Well like I said before to someone else. The Oden thing is either played for gags or as a positive confident declaration.

    Last chap was the now predictable declaration thing that he's done at least half a dozen times by now.
    If you can point me to a chapter that used it as a traditional gag, then please do. I must've missed it because it always comes off like he's super serious.

    I expect a flashback so we shall see.
    We'll see for sure. I think we've mostly gotten all of the major stuff that we'll get for him. It's almost Kaido's turn and I'm sure some of it may include Rocks, Xebec, how he got his DF, etc. If that's the case, then it would really overshadow any small part that Yamato may play in it.

  13. #53
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    In the slums of heaven... I'm renting out a condo in hell though.

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post



    I'm not talking about anything related to a mentor/role model comparison. I met by comparison as in I'm making analogies of other Strawhats to how it fits with Yamato, and you're doing the same thing. So, both our analogies can prove our own theories/speculation. You saying it's supposed to be quirk like Brook or Sanji, and I'm saying it's for character development.
    The only time I said it doesn't make sense to compare to other strawhats was about the mentor parallel since Oden isn't Yamato's mentor the way Corazon was for Law. Its why I keep bringing up Wiper and Kalgara. If you're not making that comparison then what im saying doesnt pertain to you.


    I meant after that. And yes I do agree that was hilarious with Momo's reaction! But I met after where Yamato explains herself to Momo about it.
    It wouldn't make much sense if Yamato didn't explain why he said that.


    Yes, but again if it was a quirk it would not be part of the introduction.
    I disagree.
    Zoro getting lost was not part of him meeting Luffy, for example.
    That's cuz Zoro is unaware that he has a poor sense of direction. To this day he still thinks he can follow directions.

    Some of the quirks need a bit more establishing than others.

    Like Usopp's lies. Some characters have no idea he's lying. So the joke only benefits us readers who know he's lying. Yamato's whole thing requires ppl to know who Oden is and know he's not Oden. It works pretty well on Wano and with ppl who knew the guy.

    It'll take on a whole other type of humor when he starts making the declarations to ppl who have no idea what he's talking about.

    Its why I said before it'll probably be lessened to a degree and solely continue as a gag and the off declaration to boost his confidence.


    Well, she did mention that she is Yamato several chapters ago, so I see that as character progression.
    Its only progression if you actually think Yamato doesn't know he's Yamato.

    Upon meeting Luffy he tells him his actual name and who he is.

    That's why I find it silly that ppl take this so far as to say (not you other ppl) Yamato is inauthentic or dishonest or we don't know the real him or he's not embracing himself.

    One of the things Yamato says to Luffy is that he is more Oden than him.

    Every time he meets someone new and says he's Oden he goes on to say I am Yamato, Kaido's son.

    If he really thought he was Oden he'd want to become shogun and take in Momo and Hiyori as his children. Also treat the scabbards like old friends.

    You gotta recognize when Oda is playing this for jokes and when its something serious Yamato is using to do what he thinks is right.


    I don't hate Oden. He grew on me, when we first met him in the manga he was ehh, but he improved as a character throughout his entire flashback.
    You do know you're quoting me replying to someone else right?

    That should be obvious by the quotes I'm replying to not being your posts.

    Best way to remember me -- Think of me as the Sexy Starla with my avatar seducing you! (Just playing around.)

    I also used to have a cute Yamato avatar which you probably remember me more by, possibly. I really do like Yamato, I probably should find more fanart of her.

    Or better yet, I'm one of the trans girls on AP that is very focal about her trans status. That be easier to remember my posts, I think! >~<
    I'm on my phone usually so at best I can make out are avys. Plus the longer the posts the less I take the time to see who is replying to me.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    It wouldn't just be my problem.
    Seems like it.

    Its a perceived problem to you.

    It's not an actual problem with in the story or with the character. You take issue with it. That's why I said you're gonna have to figure out a way to deal with it if it continues.
    Trapping a character in a role that will never see them grow or acknowledge their own thoughts and desires sounds like some form of Kanjuroish hell to me.
    Sounds like Luffy to an extent.
    Him just playing a role and never growing beyond it? Nah.
    Why do you think wanting to be Oden means you can't grow?

    Didn't Oden grow as a character?

    Seems to me you're just making up rules for how you think Yamato goes about trying to be Oden and ignoring everything that is uniquely Yamato (or at least not Oden) since his introduction.

    As far as Oden cosplay Yamato is not doing the best job possible; lacks the two sword style, didn't bang a bunch of Wano women at the age of 8 or 10 (given this started at 8), wasn't running around killing local monsters or beating up yakuza or other samurai. At best we got the being stuck on Wano and wanting to leave badly, then the journal provided the impetus for wanting to open Wano's borders.


    What are some inauthentic quirks that the SHs have then?
    It doesn't matter.
    The whole point of a quirk is that it's part of someone's personality and authentic to who they are.
    Last I checked Yamato is the only person trying to be like Oden.

    Not even Momo is.


    Not being who you are and trying to be someone else. Yup. Sounds like some dishonesty in there somewhere.
    Yeah if you don't understand that Oden is something Yamato aspires to be.


    OP fandom is all about what readers think based on what they want or read from characters. I imagine that's why you're also here voicing your thoughts and opinions.
    Yeah but pretending like you know what Luffy would say or think or that what you think is the only way things can go is ridiculous.


    I missed the part where I claimed to be God and demanded that everything happen just the way that I wanted. :|
    Definitely not god. Way too stubborn for that. Most ppl are open to alternatives though.


    So insightful. Lol
    Like I said its your problem. Its up to you to deal with it after what you think will happen doesn't happen.


    Not sure what all the "YOU" in caps are supposed to mean. If your point is to tell me that it's my opinion, then I kinda know...since I'm the one that said it.
    Well you just said what are we left to think when its really what are you left to think.

    You're pretending your issue with Yamato is an accepted overall issue Oda has presented in the story or even some massive issue the fandom has. It isn't and it's not.

    So its really just what you're left to think.

    And the Oden thing hasn't been played as a gag.
    Yes it has. I'm not arguing an obvious fact lol

    Tons of other characters have gotten traditional gags. Yamato isn't one of them.
    Never said anything about traditional gags. You just made that up as the qualifier out of nowhere.

    It is my take...since I'm the one that said it...
    Exactly. Doesn't mean its true or close to correct.


    It seems different to doom a character to always trying to be someone they aren't as a quirk, though.
    I disagree.

    They're not doomed to it when its something they want to be
    It's like they can never grow beyond themselves
    Growth can still be possible when aspiring to be like someone you hold in high regard.




    If you can point me to a chapter that used it as a traditional gag, then please do. I must've missed it because it always comes off like he's super serious.
    This traditional gag stuff you've made a stipulation is totally irrelevant. Not interested at all in what you think is a traditional gag. Don't care at all to talk about it. Feels like a waste of time.

    I'd say reread from Yamato's introduction if you don't see where Oda is playing Yamato's I am Oden declarations as a joke in story to characters that knew him.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
    Last.fm

  14. #54

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    The only time I said it doesn't make sense to compare to other strawhats was about the mentor parallel since Oden isn't Yamato's mentor the way Corazon was for Law. Its why I keep bringing up Wiper and Kalgara. If you're not making that comparison then what im saying doesnt pertain to you.
    Well, you quoted me on it.... that's why I mentioned it.

    Its only progression if you actually think Yamato doesn't know he's Yamato.
    I think the biggest factor is that Yamato is pretending to be a man because Oden was a man. That's why. And I don't want to go into the whole trans thing because Yamato is not trans to me. And I rather not bring that whole topic up again. That's why I see it as a way for Yamato to grow as a character and be who she is. Even if I like and think the Oden thing is cute, I just find it hard to believe it being just a quirk and not well character development in accepting one's self.

    You do know you're quoting me replying to someone else right?
    I know, but I wanted to reply to that specific quote too, as I really don't see Oden as a "chad", he's just a wacky fun character to me. I don't get the Oden hate.

    I'm on my phone usually so at best I can make out are avys. Plus the longer the posts the less I take the time to see who is replying to me.
    Oh, I just wanted to help make it easier, sorry about that.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Luffy is literally wearing Shank's actual hat and gave himself a scar to match his in the first chapter, and wears shorts and sandals just like he did.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Luffy is literally wearing Shank's actual hat and gave himself a scar to match his in the first chapter, and wears shorts and sandals just like he did.
    There’s definitely a difference between being inspired by someone else and pushing aside your own identify in favor of taking on someone else’s.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    And Yamato is finding that dividing line, right now.

    He's already said Luffy is more Oden-like, and introduced himself as Yamato to Momo after the first botched intro.

    For the last 20 years he hasn't known any of them survived. Now that that he does?

    Living LIKE Oden and living AS Oden is the difference he needs to figure out, and he's not that far from it.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Luffy is literally wearing Shank's actual hat and gave himself a scar to match his in the first chapter, and wears shorts and sandals just like he did.
    Luffy's scar had nothing to do with matching Shanks, it was to show he's strong enough to sail the seas with Shanks. I also don't remember Shanks ever wearing shorts and sandals like Luffy. The only thing of Shanks that Luffy has is the strawhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    And Yamato is finding that dividing line, right now.

    He's already said Luffy is more Oden-like, and introduced himself as Yamato to Momo after the first botched intro.

    For the last 20 years he hasn't known any of them survived. Now that that he does?

    Living LIKE Oden and living AS Oden is the difference he needs to figure out, and he's not that far from it.
    Yeah, I do sorta see that. I think by the end of this arc Yamato will have herself figured out and be herself, possibly.

    Also, this is off topic, but it is different seeing you without your iconic wolf avatar! o:

  19. #59

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    Yeah, I do sorta see that. I think by the end of this arc Yamato will have herself figured out and be herself, possibly.

    Also, this is off topic, but it is different seeing you without your iconic wolf avatar! o:
    The fact that she still uses the name “Yamato” despite repeatedly talking about becoming Oden could imply quite a bit of an identity crisis.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    The fact that she still uses the name “Yamato” despite repeatedly talking about becoming Oden could imply quite a bit of an identity crisis.
    Yeah, maybe she is stuck between it and is trying to figure herself out. I think that can help a lot with her joining the crew, maybe it be a link to her dream possibly?

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