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Thread: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

  1. #61

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    I wouldn't call it the best chap of the arc too, but:

    Shiki vs. Roger, Garp vs. Roger, Shanks vs. Kaido, Whitebeard vs. random Yonko, Akainu vs. Aokiji, Ace vs. Jimbei, Blackbeards famous offpanel victories...

    I don't know why you are so upset now about this particular fight. When there are no SHs involved directly we don't see anything of those big clashes.

    Kaido and BM are old and don't need to grow in strenghts and character through fighting anymore like, say, the Supernovae. If something important like that happens, Oda would show it to us.
    "Often I think about my many comrades fallen by my side. I heard their curses against the war and its authors, the revolt against their murder. And I, as a survivor, believe that I am inspired by their will to struggle, for the idea of peace and human fraternity."
    Corp. Barthas, France, Feb. 1919

  2. #62

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    There wasn’t any new info in the chapter
    Not true in the slightest:

    - Gyukimaru views Wano as being cursed by the "Sword God"
    - Tama has tamed Babanuki to keep Queen from knowing about Udon
    - The reveal of the Yakuza bosses, which also subtly shows that the Kuri one is missing
    - Ashura is the one who stole the blueprints 10 years ago
    - They've obtained 3500 people from the Udon prison
    - Gyukimaru knows Kawamatsu personally

    We don’t need to see Kaido vs Mom but we need to see Gyukimaru ?
    That's such a weird way of looking at things. You and others may have a preference on who you want to see, we all do at times. But just like Big Mom and Kaido, Gyukimaru has his own role to play in this arc, as do many of the other side characters. He's tied to Zoro getting back Shusui and will likely provide the alliances with the weapons they need, among other things, so yes, we do need to see him. Zoro literally said he was gonna go and find him.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    I believe this Big Mom vs Kaidou fight is completely inconsequential, in the sense that nobody will be defeated or badly hurt. At the end, they will just finish it and go their separate ways or maybe they will make an alliance. Either way, both outcomes don't need the fight to happen.

    So what's there to see? Kaidou tanking some punches? Big Mom getting up unscathed after being thrown to the ground? Some dodges? A lot of trash talk? Ahn... honestly, showing all this seems a little pointless to me. Usually I'm all in for a good fight with nice coreography, but this one right here is just a lot of power level for a fight that doesn't have real stakes and in which nothing will happen.

    If I'm wrong and something awesome comes from this fight, then I'd like to see it, yes. But in this case I believe that Oda will show the last moments of the fights and everybody will be happy.

  4. #64
    Charismatic Awesome Joy Boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    Not true in the slightest:

    - Gyukimaru views Wano as being cursed by the "Sword God"
    - Tama has tamed Babanuki to keep Queen from knowing about Udon
    - The reveal of the Yakuza bosses, which also subtly shows that the Kuri one is missing
    - Ashura is the one who stole the blueprints 10 years ago
    - They've obtained 3500 people from the Udon prison
    - Gyukimaru knows Kawamatsu personally



    That's such a weird way of looking at things. You and others may have a preference on who you want to see, we all do at times. But just like Big Mom and Kaido, Gyukimaru has his own role to play in this arc, as do many of the other side characters. He's tied to Zoro getting back Shusui and will likely provide the alliances with the weapons they need, among other things, so yes, we do need to see him. Zoro literally said he was gonna go and find him.
    The sword god stuff doesnít really add anything. Itís just Gyukimaru being stupid. Zoro will show him there is no god. Also I donít know why you are surprised with the 3,5k, we already knew they were gonna get thousands of soldiers from Udon so no surprise there.

    And donít compare Gyukimaru to the main antagonist of the whole saga. Do you realize who Kaido is ?


  5. #65

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    The sword god stuff doesn’t really add anything. It’s just Gyukimaru being stupid. Zoro will show him there is no god. Also I don’t know why you are surprised with the 3,5k, we already knew they were gonna get thousands of soldiers from Udon so no surprise there.
    New info is new info, please don't move the goalposts, or ignore the other clearly new things the chapter revealed to us.

    And don’t compare Gyukimaru to the main antagonist of the whole saga. Do you realize who Kaido is ?
    They are both fictional characters with their respective roles to play in this arc. The idea that it's offensive for me to compare the two is weird. The point is, we have subplots that involve Gyukimaru as well, so we needed to see him as well.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Really hoping BM vs Kaido leads into a Rox flashback.

  7. #67
    Empress of Diabetes Miss Saturday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Shanks and WB didnít really fight, they just clashed. Here we have a legit fight. Also really dude ? We donít need to see Kaido vs Mom but we need to see Gyukimaru ?
    First off, I don't know what the fuck a Gyukimaru is so jot that down; that's how little of an impression this arc's side characters have made on me -- I already forgot half of them. Secondly, what constitutes as "fighting" and/or "clashing" within the One Piece fandom tends to change by the day. Sometimes two people smacking swords against one another once is considered a "fight", sometimes not, idk. But what I do know is that Shanks vs. Whitebeard was also off-paneled as soon as they started fighting. We actually don't know if they fought or how long for. Same with Shanks stopping Kaido.. we don't know if they fought or talked or what. Every time two Yonko face off, we're not shown; this is not new.

    Kaido's skills and powers are all endgame to the arc (inversely, we already know almost everything BM can do cause she got her own arc we just came from), why would Oda show us the big boss at his absolute limit dishing out everything he's got when our protagonists aren't even close to fighting him yet? This is called "blowing your load early", and it's something you should avoid doing unless you wanna piss off your partner in bed. Dude.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Joy Boy continues to shit up threads

  9. #69
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    The thing about seeing Kaido vs. Big Mom fight is...nothing really seems to have changed in the 10-12 hours that they've been fighting. And I would wager it'll be a fair bit more time before anything shifts.

    There's a difference between skipping over important parts of a fight or giving little attention to a short and dynamic fight, and poking in and out of a fight that could last days, especially when there are other important plotlines to address. And I mean, Oda could certainly do the former to Kaido vs. Big Mom in the future, but right now there's not really an issue.

    Honestly, I have no idea where Oda is going with this fight. My best guess is that it's intended to keep Kaido and Big Mom sidelined for the next few days so they're not an issue for the protags.
    Last edited by Kaido King of the Beasts; August 19th, 2019 at 06:57 PM.

    Spoiler:

  10. #70

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTnaig View Post
    Oda doesn't like drawing fights since the timeskip because apparently some irrelevant side characters are more important to him and deserve more panel time. I doubt we'll even see the final fight against him that much Oda will just cut to Kinemon or Raizou fighting their fodder opponents instead.

    Also Kaido isn't the main antagonist of this arc. Wano doesn't have a single main baddie but 3.
    Guess we got lucky with Blackbeard vs Ace because if it happened to day we wouldn't of seen it.

  11. #71
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Chaos View Post
    Guess we got lucky with Blackbeard vs Ace because if it happened to day we wouldn't of seen it.
    The fight that was marginally longer than Sanji vs. Page One?

    Spoiler:

  12. #72

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    The fight that was marginally longer than Sanji vs. Page One?
    It had 2 whole chapters dedicated to it more than more than most Strawhats fights.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by NamiRobinFrankyAce View Post
    I think Luffy's speech in Fishman Island acknowledges this theme. He says he doesnt want to be a hero and doesnt want to be seen as such. Because "he wants to eat all the meat".
    Yes,then in Wano he actually acted differently,giving "the meat" to the people,but i think his point stands anyway.
    By the way,about the Tama argument,i still think her power should be seen more like a "dominant animal who has influence over other animals" than slavery or brainwashing. Or at least something similar to Pokemon training lol.
    Once again contrast between what Luffy intends to do and how he is perceived doing the things he does.
    There is no discussion to be had about whether Luffy is a hero or is seen as a hero or not, itīs just that Oda is not confining him in the traditional do-gooder shoes.

  14. #74
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    The thing about seeing Kaido vs. Big Mom fight is...nothing really seems to have changed in the 10-12 hours that they've been fighting. And I would wager it'll be a fair bit more time before anything shifts.

    There's a difference between skipping over important parts of a fight or giving little attention to a short and dynamic fight, and poking in and out of a fight that could last days, especially when there are other important plotlines to address. And I mean, Oda could certainly do the former to Kaido vs. Big Mom in the future, but right now there's not really an issue.

    Honestly, I have no idea where Oda is going with this fight. My best guess is that it's intended to keep Kaido and Big Mom sidelined for the next few days so they're not an issue for the protags.
    I think the main reason is to bring up ROX again and set that up later, perhaps even for the climax of the arc. But how the fight ends, I mean if they make things up, Luffy's already really hard challenge to beat Kaido is made downright impossible if Big Mom is also an active enemy.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    Basically, Tama's powers have been used to make people into slaves, and up until now slavery and the suppression of freedom has been presented as the most vile thing in the world. This time however Old Maid/Babanuki is being brainwashed by the Strawhats without as much as a second thought. If a villain did the same thing they'd probably been treated as at least a Doflamingo level bastard. It feels like a contradiction to me.
    Tama's Kibi-dango ability to make animals into slaves is based on a Japanese folklore "Momo Tarou". Maybe Oda decided to go with this story despite some criticisms because it's super famous that Japanese can easily understand the plot of Wano arc.

    The protagonist named Momo Tarou gives Kibi-dangos to 3 animals (dog, pheasant and monkey =Luffy?) and makes them subordinates. Then they eradicate "evil" demons in Onigashima and on top of that, they take away all of demons' properties such as a miracle hammer that produces infinite money.
    This story has been sometimes criticized as cruel in modern Japan. During World War 2, Japanese government went so far as to use this folklore as patriotic propaganda to consider America and Britain as "demons" in Onigashima.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Am I reading something completely differently. I figured what clearly happened was she saw that Kawamatsu was suffering by giving up so much to keep her safe so she ran away, to free him from the burden, but he got caught trying to look for him.
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  17. #77

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Am I reading something completely differently. I figured what clearly happened was she saw that Kawamatsu was suffering by giving up so much to keep her safe so she ran away, to free him from the burden, but he got caught trying to look for him.
    Well we haven't talked much about how Kawamatsu got captured, just whether or not you believe Hiyori's reasons for running away. As for that being how he got captured, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    WB and Shanks meeting actually lasted a chapter Oda couldn't even give us that with Kaido and BM. He cut their meeting short to get to the action only then to off panel any fighting.

  19. #79
    Stowaway w/ 18k posts Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    VIZ is also saying Yakuza bossed of EVERY region

    So what Hyogoro is Kuri? Or Flower capital... meaning one is still missing

  20. #80
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 952: Hiyori and Kawamatsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Chaos View Post
    It had 2 whole chapters dedicated to it more than more than most Strawhats fights.
    One and a half. And much of it was focused on the two of them talking and Blackbeard demonstrating his powers, plus the final result was offscreened...feels a lot like Sanji vs. Page One to me.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTnaig View Post
    WB and Shanks meeting actually lasted a chapter Oda couldn't even give us that with Kaido and BM. He cut their meeting short to get to the action only then to off panel any fighting.
    **Whitebeard and Shanks meeting**
    • Attention is given to Whitebeard and his crew as we had only seen them once prior
    • We get flashbacks and reminiscing of their past
    • Their discussion is about the rise of Blackbeard, setting one of the first stones in place for Summit War
    • Their meeting is not shown again after that one chapter
    **Kaido and Big Mom meeting**
    • We already know a lot about both them and their crews
    • Their past has not been revealed yet beyond vague mentions
    • Whitebeard and Shanks clashed briefly over a disagreement on a groundbreaking development. Kaido and Big Mom actually want to kill each other over developments we've been closely following over hundreds of chapters
    • There is obvious setup for their fight and past to be expanded on in later chapters

    Spoiler:

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