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Thread: My Hero Academia II - Bhyyyyyyyyy

  1. #101
    Pokémon Master brennen.exe's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    [Disclaimer] Skimmed discussion. Speed read chapters.

    I've seen some comments like "I hope Deku gets in trouble" and the recent post above about Deku being reckless, but is he really? I don't know that he had a better means of resolving this situation earlier, and as he noted at the outset he really didn't want to stop the festival due to an incident-- doesn't his provisional license allow for this, legally? (I might be misremembering that). Anyway, I think back to the situations he's been in and I want to say every single time he was brainstorming his options and chose what he thought was his only/best course of action given his circumstances. If anything, the story has written him into a corner. He was only really reckless in regards to the use of his quirk and its damaging affects on himself, no?

  2. #102

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    I don't recall if it was explicitly stated what the provisional license allows/does not allow for, but what he did here (self defense in public, kind of?) is almost definitely kosher, if for no other reason than he didn't have an anxious flashback of Dogface McGruff (lecturing him+Ida+Todoroki that one time) right before launching an attack at Gentle.
    Aizawa's probably still going to have some stern comments for him though.

  3. #103

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    The current situation definitely strikes me as pretty fine. Deku's desire to be a hero hasn't really had many negative effects so far, it's more the fact that it could potentially cause trouble at *some* point that I'm keeping it in mind.

  4. #104
    Discovered Stowaway Mr. Burns's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Yeah, I'm not sure why people want Deku to be reprimanded for his actions here. In fact, I fully expect that had Gentle not removed Deku from the equation at the last minute Deku would be receiving praise, not condemnation. How Deku was shot out of sight so quickly is still a mystery to me, but I guess that's a quibble about the art rather than the logic of Gentle's plan? Either way, I don't think Deku has done anything egregious in exercising his right to defend a public institution against a villain. You have to remember, Deku knows only the vaguest details of Gentle's plans, and that has vast implications for how Deku is going to remedy this situation; the immediate result is that our pugnacious protagonist proffers his pugs for inspection upside Gentle's face. Deku JUST got done saving Eri from Handsy McGuffin and kinda wants to make sure she can have a normal remaining childhood.

    If Deku could reason with Gentle, then this fight would not need to take place, but Gentle is so self-absorbed or desperate that he just ignores all of Deku's pleas for him to step-down. Yeah, sure, Deku started the fight I suppose, but that is more a function of him being sharp-witted enough to recognize Gentle. I think a larger complaint would be: how is Deku able to keep finding these villains? And many have already voiced that the setup seems contrived, but I can't fault Deku for wanting to protect UA or Eri.

  5. #105

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
    If Deku could reason with Gentle, then this fight would not need to take place, but Gentle is so self-absorbed or desperate that he just ignores all of Deku's pleas for him to step-down.
    I haven't seen anyone else bring up this point, so I have to assume no one else has really considered it. But Deku DID spend the entire fight trying to resolve the situation without continuing the violence, pleading his case and letting Gentle know all of the things that were at stake. It's Gentle who refused to compromise/pursue another solution.
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  6. #106

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    I'm at least glad we got a lead character whose talk no jutsu is not effective on any villains.

  7. #107

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    I'm at least glad we got a lead character whose talk no jutsu is not effective on any villains.
    Because it's totally not going to work on Shigaraki at the series end.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

  8. #108

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post
    Because it's totally not going to work on Shigaraki at the series end.
    That would be the worst. Just as Deku is being set up as the greatest hero Facepalm should be the greatest villain. No speech should undo that lol.

  9. #109

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    That would be the worst. Just as Deku is being set up as the greatest hero Facepalm should be the greatest villain. No speech should undo that lol.
    Wouldn't it be better if Shigaraki learned AfO had used him to be a simple but cruel twist against All Might instead of really nurturing him? Shigaraki's shown a lot more character growth and humanizing traits now that he's out from under AfO's thumb. Deku and Shiggy fighting AfO together would make a pretty great finale.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

  10. #110

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post
    Wouldn't it be better if Shigaraki learned AfO had used him to be a simple but cruel twist against All Might instead of really nurturing him? Shigaraki's shown a lot more character growth and humanizing traits now that he's out from under AfO's thumb. Deku and Shiggy fighting AfO together would make a pretty great finale.
    I think whether or not shiggy ends up changing sides depends on what all might did or didnt do that made shiggy hate him.If its a misunderstanding hell probably turn good but if its an actual mistake or something all might made he would probably stay as the villain.Personally i hope all might did make a mistake because it would probably be interesting to see how deku deals with the fact that his hero wasnt actually perfect.It would probably be the all might isnt actually almighty moment for deku just like how the shriveled all might was the moment for the normal civiliians.

  11. #111

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    I don't want Shiggy to turn good. Even if he finds out what AFO did. I think that even after all of this, he should still find his villain way.

  12. #112
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    I don't want Shiggy to turn good. Even if he finds out what AFO did. I think that even after all of this, he should still find his villain way.
    This. This entirely. I want villain Shigaraki to the end. Maybe Horikoshi can make it seem like ge will waver at some point. But only to end in him becoming a worse threat than ever.

    I am not interested in All for One being the final villain. And to be honest, I'm kind of hoping that he has some form of perverse but legitinate affection for Shigaraki that is more than just spite against All-Might (not that I necessarily think that is bad). I find his willingness to find an heir very fascinating for a villain and I hope it has depth behind it beyond just "MY HATE WILL LIVE FOREVER" like Ganondorf. But I can forgive that if Shigaraki still does what Baroness says and becomes the villain with philosophical depth instead.

    The way Horikoshi wrote Bakugo's rescue arc makes me have hope that Shigaraki will not become another Zabuza/Gaara/Nagato/Obito/Sasuke. Not that I'm against Deku helping a villain reform one or two times in this series, but please let it be a more realistic and subtle choice than the final freaking villain who should be the worst and most determined of them all.

    I also hope Shigaraki's hatred for heroes is something more than "All-Might never noticed a random homeless kid starving and getting picked on" or "nobody was there to help my parents". Because while that is sad, that is a petty thing to blame on any hero. I hope it is an actual mistake All-Might consciously made. But All-Might's brief monologue to Deku right after the mall incident about not always being there to save every single person makes me think it will be something like that, which is too much of a naive childish grievance for me to like. That's even lamer than Zemo's backstory in Civil War.
    Last edited by Count Mario; April 26th, 2018 at 04:42 PM.

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  13. #113

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    This. This entirely. I want villain Shigaraki to the end. Maybe Horikoshi can make it seem like ge will waver at some point. But only to end in him becoming a worse threat than ever.

    I am not interested in All for One being the final villain. And to be honest, I'm kind of hoping that he has some form of perverse but legitinate affection for Shigaraki that is more than just spite against All-Might (not that I necessarily think that is bad). I find his willingness to find an heir very fascinating for a villain and I hope it has depth behind it beyond just "MY HATE WILL LIVE FOREVER" like Ganondorf. But I can forgive that if Shigaraki still does what Baroness says and becomes the villain with philosophical depth instead.
    What if shigaraki becomes good at the end but we get this surprise twist

    Spoiler:
    Villain Deku
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  14. #114

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Haven't we established that Shigaraki doesn't have a personalbgrudge against All Might as an individual but seeks to bring him down as a symbol of modern hero society? He's never shown any personal hatred or resentments towards Toshinori; hell, while he saw All Might as a final boss and a target from the start, he didn't fixate on him until Deku really pointed out his importance.

    Shigaraki's whole deal revolves on his anger being born from societal neglect. And frankly, he has a point. Hero society is pretty flawed and a lot of people slip through the cracks. Shigaraki started out with pure childish rage, lashing out at the symbols of his neglect without much substantial thought behind his actions. Since then, though, he's gathered fellow outcasts around him and started to show real bonds and humanity with them. It's not hard to see that trend continuing- as soon as Shigaraki moves from wanting to simply tear down society to actually wanting to replace it with something, he's well on his way from being a real revolutionary instead of a thoughtless reactionary punk. With all the hints we've seen that hero society has some serious systemic problems beneath the surface, it would crazy not to devote real focus to the subject later. Shigaraki the Revolutionary is the perfect vehicle to explore that and really confront the UA students with those complex flaws.

    What this means is that All for One and Shigaraki will eventually have opposing visions and goals. All for One has sought to establish an underworld empire from the shadows, operating outside the law. As far as we know, he was perfectly content to let society exist, flaws and all, so long as he had all the power. Shigaraki, as we've established, wants to tear society down all together; he also has been repeatedly shown to want recognition and respect. Ruling from the shadows doesn't interest him at all. Once Shigaraki sees how All for One used him and engendered much of the modern flawed society, he'll likely turn against his sensei if his crew or his own goals are threatened.

    This also means that Talk no Jutsu could go both ways. Shigaraki, with a proper ethos and goal, absolutely has the opportunity to make Deku realize he's defending an unjust system, just as Deku can try to make Shigaraki embrace more peaceful methods. And I mean for real flawed, not "I'm sorry our ancestors were dicks to each other" flawed. All for One presents a great external threat to allow the two of them to share common ground but, after thinking it through, probably shouldn't be the major climax.

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  15. #115
    Discovered Stowaway Mr. Burns's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Hmm, I had an early theory that we are building up to the revelation that All Might was wrong in how he approached establishing himself as a hero beyond all others. Society needed a hero to look up to, but did it need someone that was so integral to the system that his loss would nearly spell the end of Hero society? Every other hero was weighed and measured against Toshinori's accomplishments for better or worse, and putting that much power on one person's shoulders is just asking for trouble. Especially if you have no plan on how to replace him. Imagine if One for All did NOT exist--All Might is just an immensely powerful being. His loss would be even more devastating.

    Hero society as we know it has been built up with All Might as its central pillar and without him, the edifice is crumbling. In my headcanon, a lot of the other heroes were lax in their duties precisely because All Might was so dominant a force in Hero society, and that has directly led to situations like Shigaraki's. Is it satisfying that Shigaraki's one beef with All Might is that he is indirectly responsible for the death (I guess?) of his parents (I guess?)? No, not really, but I tend to think like Jabberwok where Shigaraki is going to make some salient points about Hero society that forces a change in perspective from Deku. I want Deku to change from idolizing his mentor to actively examining the legacy that All Might has built and the inherent flaws in what All Might established.

    Stain and Gentle both provide direct evidence of the failures of Hero society. Stain's dogmatic destruction of "fake heroes", Gentle's search for fame through two-bit villainy, and Shigaraki's rage at a system that failed him are all trying to build the case that the hero system is fatally flawed. Many people were either ignorant or outright ignored the problems with the system because of All Might's presence. If it ain't broke don't fix it, but since All Might was SUCH an outlier he unintentionally created the consequence that people think a system is fine when it is only being kept together with scotch tape and bubble gum.

    Now, none of that is new information really, but I hope we do get a satisfying conclusion that isn't just Deku being the new symbol of peace and propping up the system again. I want a satisfying conclusion where Deku recognizes being a paragon does NOT mean that he must be able to systematically end all crime like Toshinori attempted to do. Eh, I guess we will have to wait and see how everything plays out, but I'm holding out hope it won't end that way...please don't end that way.

  16. #116

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    I mean, yeah, I totally get you, but I would imagine that Toshinori only got to be leagues ahead of any other hero because of All for One. The disparity with how crazy powerful All for One was basically meant that if only one hero stopped him, they'd rise to be the single best, and that probably formulated how All Might ended up being the cornerstone of society.

    I'd like to think that we get a special focus on all of Deku's classmates because they'll all contribute to being symbols of peace or something tho

  17. #117
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post
    Haven't we established that Shigaraki doesn't have a personalbgrudge against All Might as an individual but seeks to bring him down as a symbol of modern hero society? He's never shown any personal hatred or resentments towards Toshinori; hell, while he saw All Might as a final boss and a target from the start, he didn't fixate on him until Deku really pointed out his importance.

    Shigaraki's whole deal revolves on his anger being born from societal neglect. And frankly, he has a point. Hero society is pretty flawed and a lot of people slip through the cracks. Shigaraki started out with pure childish rage, lashing out at the symbols of his neglect without much substantial thought behind his actions. Since then, though, he's gathered fellow outcasts around him and started to show real bonds and humanity with them. It's not hard to see that trend continuing- as soon as Shigaraki moves from wanting to simply tear down society to actually wanting to replace it with something, he's well on his way from being a real revolutionary instead of a thoughtless reactionary punk. With all the hints we've seen that hero society has some serious systemic problems beneath the surface, it would crazy not to devote real focus to the subject later. Shigaraki the Revolutionary is the perfect vehicle to explore that and really confront the UA students with those complex flaws.

    What this means is that All for One and Shigaraki will eventually have opposing visions and goals. All for One has sought to establish an underworld empire from the shadows, operating outside the law. As far as we know, he was perfectly content to let society exist, flaws and all, so long as he had all the power. Shigaraki, as we've established, wants to tear society down all together; he also has been repeatedly shown to want recognition and respect. Ruling from the shadows doesn't interest him at all. Once Shigaraki sees how All for One used him and engendered much of the modern flawed society, he'll likely turn against his sensei if his crew or his own goals are threatened.

    This also means that Talk no Jutsu could go both ways. Shigaraki, with a proper ethos and goal, absolutely has the opportunity to make Deku realize he's defending an unjust system, just as Deku can try to make Shigaraki embrace more peaceful methods. And I mean for real flawed, not "I'm sorry our ancestors were dicks to each other" flawed. All for One presents a great external threat to allow the two of them to share common ground but, after thinking it through, probably shouldn't be the major climax.
    I like and predict a lot of that too. I have been really itching for Deku to get a bone to pick with society's flaws and learn that All-Might's heroing style is flawed in some way (I still think All for One was kind of right in that prison interrogation scene with Toshinori). But I would still prefer all of that going down with a failed Talk no Jutsu then one that somehow works.

    And hey, you can have a Deku and Shigaraki vs All for One fight WITHOUT that being the FINAL fight in the series. Just because they team up once does not mean they become full time partners who agree with each other's methods.

    I just can't see Deku and Shigaraki meeting eye to eye even if they grow to agree on certain things needing to change. The League of Villains, despite how sympathetic they are and how their creation can partially be blamed on society, is still full of murderers and scum that I don't see Shigaraki ever being willing to sell out, as seen in how the Twice chapter builds them up as a figurative family of outcasts. I can't see the heroes agreeing with any Orochimaru-style amnesty happening (assuming the manga still maintains its writing quality), as shown in how Deku respects Stain being inspired to do good by All-Might but vehemently disagrees with his methods. Shigaraki has already killed someone (one of the Cleansers) and tortured Chisaki physically and mentally, and we know he's just going to up his misdeeds before any possible redemption plot come along. And neither do I see the League of Villains willfully surrendering to pay for their crimes. I also can't see Shigaraki ever building up the confidence to believe Deku has a better chance at reforming hero society than he does, no matter how humble Shigaraki becomes or much those two might come to bitterly respect each other's viewpoints.

    So I'm still in the "Naruto versus Sasuke done right" camp for the final fight. Even if Deku says "Shigaraki, you were right all along", they're sure as hell still gonna fight regardless. Especially since it is inevitable for All-Might to become biased towards trying to help Shigaraki out of sympathy and that effort inevitably backfiring (possibly to the point of causing his death). Oh, sure, he told Gran Torino that he'll keep his head in the game and told All for One that he will not let Shigaraki destroy him and Deku, but it's easy to talk the talk before walking the walk. Horikoshi is not going to let All-Might reform Shigaraki because that strips Deku away from earning any kind of victory over his nemesis, whether it's a fight or Talk no Jutsu. And we still don't know for sure how All for One manipulated All Might to let him escape in their last fight, which I bet is going to come back along with revealing how Nana Shimura died. So if All-Might is most likeky going to fail a Talk no Jutsu or at least likely be held back by guilt somehow with all these hints, why would Horikoshi make Deku do that but somehow win this time? Wouldn't the correct course of actiom be to NOT repeat All-Might's mistakes? If Shigaraki ends up causing All-Might's death, even indirectly, that might as well be the clear no turning back point for him.

    At the end of the day though, change does need to happen. These villains aren't getting all these sympathetic backstories for nothing. Twice joined the League of Villains just to find a place where he could velong solely because he felt society would never welcome a freak like him. Deku has to change that. Along with a bunch of other things.

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  18. #118
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    I guess I am the one guy that's totally cool with their society and think it makes sense.



  19. #119
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    I mean, yeah, I totally get you, but I would imagine that Toshinori only got to be leagues ahead of any other hero because of All for One. The disparity with how crazy powerful All for One was basically meant that if only one hero stopped him, they'd rise to be the single best, and that probably formulated how All Might ended up being the cornerstone of society.

    I'd like to think that we get a special focus on all of Deku's classmates because they'll all contribute to being symbols of peace or something tho
    Heyo, I agree with that! I'm sorry if it seemed I didn't, haha. Yeah, All Might was an incredible force for sure. I just think that he didn't allow society to grow beyond their need for him. I also agree that the solution seems to be having a generation that collectively represents the symbol of peace, at least, that's what I hope happens. I wouldn't mind some focus on countries outside of Japan to see how they deal with licensure of heroes just to provide some needed contrast with Japan; that may stay in Vigilante though.

  20. #120

    Default Re: My Hero Academia II - A Horikoshi series that actually made it to a second thread

    All Might being the sole pillar is a major flaw. That pretty much got some acknowledgement when the provisional license started. I mean...I dunno what All Might had planned to do if he had never encountered AFO but maybe just got too old to work in general. Endeavour got 1st place automatically after All Might had to retire but the general public and villains don't feel nearly as safe or threatened by him. This also kinda leads me to think that the end game will be more about teams Avenger or JL style instead of just relying on one person. Yeah Deku's monologue says how he's number one, but he could still be considered the best but maybe with not such a massive gap.

    I wonder how other countries are doing. Do they have an All Might equivalent or was he like the world's best? Not just Japan or America?


    I super dislike the idea of Deku becoming a villain lol. Every other fanfic has that scenario and honestly some fuckery would have to happen to make that seem plausible given his personality.

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