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Thread: European Politics Thread

  1. #501
    Sweet Home Chicago Cyan D. Funk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Promising to immedietly go on a forced nationalization spree probably wasn't a vote winner either
    "WE'RE GONNA NATIONALIZE THE TRAINS"because apparently slogans from 1919 will really fire up the British people who are scared that the island will run out of medicine by this time next year.

  2. #502

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    So much for the United Kingdom.

    Americans should really start sweating looking at these results.
    For the UK, today is a horror movie.

    For America, this is the trailer for next year's horror movie.
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  3. #503

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    You can't help but feel that a coat rack would've made for a more sellable candidate for PM. I reckon it isn't so much that BJ is super popular as it is that he is running against noted trainwreck Jeremy Corbyn

  4. #504

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    I see a lot of Rose Twitter already in full damage control mode, blaming the establishment and Blairite treason. No way Corbyn is leaving with such support.

  5. #505

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    For the UK, today is a horror movie.

    For America, this is the trailer for next year's horror movie.
    But hey now the US get to sell stuff to GB without those pesky EU regulations.

  6. #506
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    At least it's a clear majority, no excuses this time. After three years people should know what happens now and I personally respect that decision. Hell, even people here have enough of Brexit dominating the news, I don't want to know what you Brits must go through on a daily basis.

    Execute Brexit, see how it goes and don't burn too many bridges for the next generation. I assume there will be another referendum about re-joining the EU in 7-10 years.


  7. #507
    Sweet Home Chicago Cyan D. Funk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    I see a lot of Rose Twitter already in full damage control mode, blaming the establishment and Blairite treason. No way Corbyn is leaving with such support.
    It's all the fault of the centrists and the Jew-I mean, the Zionists who refuse to Bend the Knee to the Absolute Boy.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    I'm incredibly wary of extrapolating this to comment on how this predicts 2020.

    Labour spent the past 3 years digging the biggest hole for themselves over Brexit, refusing to make their position on it clear (And when they did stake out a position, it was incoherent and dumb.) Losing Scotland, once their stronghold of support, to the SNP compounded things. Factor in a party leader who is a fucking moron convinced that it's still 1970 and dumbass Trot rhetoric is a wise and clear-headed strategy in 2019 and the recipe for disaster was seen a mile away.

  8. #508
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Why the hell are so many British determined to leave the EU? Poor John Oliver must be frothing at the mouth right now.

  9. #509

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    It's all the fault of the centrists and the Jew-I mean, the Zionists who refuse to Bend the Knee to the Absolute Boy.
    I mean... didn't mainstream Democrats also blame Sanders supporters in the immediate wake of the 2016 results?

  10. #510

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    Fucking devastating. The past years really are a non stop barrage of terrible news aren't they? I don't know how I still haven't sunk into depression after all this shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Why the hell are so many British determined to leave the EU? Poor John Oliver must be frothing at the mouth right now.
    Not to take blame away from Labo/Corbyn, but this is part of it: most of British media is in the hands of a small number of people (good old Ruport Murdoch for example). Tory policy is better for their wallet so they disseminate misinformation to help the Tories win (redirect anger towards immigrants, smear Labor, fellating Tories etc.). It's a massive hurdle for Labor to overcome.
    Spoiler:

    I'm kind of losing hope. The far right just keeps on winning elections across the world and with every election won the world's most powerful keep gaining more power. That allows them to do even more effective propaganda reaching more people and winning more elections etc. I'm probably being dramatic because I'm in a doomer mood right now but I feel like someday we're gonna reach some sort of fucked up event horizon of bullshit and disinformation we're never coming back from.
    Last edited by DoctorPhil; December 12th, 2019 at 07:09 PM.

  11. #511
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorPhil View Post
    I'm kind of losing hope. The far right just keeps on winning elections across the world and with every election won the world's most powerful keep gaining more power.
    If it's any consolation, the far right Brexit party is practically dead, the voters fully absorbed by Johnson. This is a good thing no matter how I look at it. Even if Johnson himself is problematic in his own populistic ways, he isn't someone who just wants to watch everything burn for the laughs, like Farage. There will be a Brexit and it will be May's Johnson's deal, not the no-deal Brexit most are afraid of.


  12. #512
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Just been staying for a couple of years in the UK but the major frustration seems to be over the immigration policy laid out by the system and the benefits that come from it for immigrants from the EU. And of course, urban cities are less prone to that than the small towns and cities.

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  13. #513

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    I'm quite enjoying the vile and hate being spouted from the left wing this morning because Conservatives obtained a majority. I live in hope that they look at themselves and realize that talking down and dismissing anyone with opposing ideas to them isn't going to entice the undecided voters to vote in agreement with them. Too long have I seem the left calling people dumb, racist, xenophobic, etc on the basis of them voting for Brexit WITHOUT even discussing why people voted for it in the first place. Nice to see their true colors coming out and showing everyone.

    Onto the election, the biggest problem is that Labour completely mismanaged who they were targeting, and in turn shifting from their traditional northern voters towards more of a younger/southern voter. Another key issue that I suspect may come out soon is not only Corbyn himself, but also the fact that voters simply never forgave Labour for their betrayal of respecting the referendum into 2017, and a little further back, I suspect alot of voters still haven't forgiven them for their time in power under Blair and the disaster that followed.

    Best thing now is Labour, and Lib Dems too (due to Swinson not getting her seat which under LD rules means new leader) need to get their heads down and get in new party leaders and try and remove themselves from all Brexit talk for a few elections to rebuild up their user base, a good starting point could very well be the first past the post system.

  14. #514

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    So i guess this means that the UK will be crashing out soon.

    Now that he has the power to pull a kamikaze move

  15. #515

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    More than 30% for a marxist party. Isn't that a lot for a western country ? Mélenchon could barely scratch 19% of the votes during the last presidential elections

  16. #516

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    I really do look forward to the testing of British bravado.

    The sink or swim moment shouldn't be too far away now.

  17. #517

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    *Troubles 2.0 begin*

    English people, unironically: Do these elites not understand why we HAD to vote for Brexit?

  18. #518
    Ou l‘optimisme Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    More than 30% for a marxist party. Isn't that a lot for a western country ? Mélenchon could barely scratch 19% of the votes during the last presidential elections
    To be honest, I really don't know how to translate this percentage into a) other electoral systems with b) all the tactical voting and c) one predominating political topic.

  19. #519

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    My reflections on the election result for any who are interested:

    If they wanted to win an election the (hard left of the) Labour party chose the wrong strategy. The jerk to the left is super appealing to mainly students, young graduates; young middle class/highly educated people who aren't well distributed enough for a first past the post election (e.g. very useful for holding onto Cambridge and Canterbury, not so great in, uh, most of the country). Sure, there's the Brexit element too, which I imagine made quite a bit of the difference in many of those leave-leaning seats in particular. And sure, the leadership's pretty unpopular, but I don't think that makes as much of an impact.

    It's perfectly fine for them to adopt the policies they like if they'e happy to lose every election ... their shift to the left has pulled the Tories more to the centre too (perhaps not evident from the pre-election cabinet) and ideas that get branded by the media and lazy online commentators as crazy 'Marxist' ideas get implemented by a nominally centre right government a few years later (I'm thinking of the energy price cap as I write this). But I imagine that many people in the Labour party want to be a party of government, so they'll want to change tack. Since their left wing policies did abysmally in the 1983 election, it took 14 years for them to shift slowly to the centre and finally win an election...

    For the Lib Dems, the strategy was also disastrous. They only ever became a big party by snapping up seats in the south west which broadly voted leave. Gambling on such a strong revocation platform to try and overturn huge majorities in very remain-leaning seats (nearly worked in some places, e.g. Cambridgeshire South, Esher & Walton, Finchley & Golders Green, actually did work in St Albans) was pretty much outright sacrificing their existing more leave leaning seats (of which they lost three out of four) and giving up on recovering their SW seats. Of course, their actual campaign also went pretty badly so they didn't even win those former lib dem constituencies that were very remain leaning, e.g. Cheltenham or Wells.

    Until/unless we get electoral reform, getting into government requires mass appeal, and the only party who played to that in this election was the Conservative party - sure, their 'get Brexit done' message divided people pretty hard along the leave/remain axis, but they otherwise campaigned from a fairly centre-right platform, so there wasn't much to put most voters off...

    There's a lot of talk about the break up of the union, on which I have a couple of thoughts.

    Firstly, for Scotland, a vote for the SNP in a general election is not a vote for independence - but a pro independence voter is pretty unlikely to vote for one of the UK-wide parties. The SNP ran on a very strong anti-Brexit platform plus the usual idea that a stronger SNP group in Westminster is a stronger voice for Scottish priorities. In spite of this the total vote for the SNP and the Scottish Greens (also pro-independence) was 46%. I'm not suggesting this is totally indicative of what would happen in another independence referendum, e.g. because the franchise would be different, turnout would probably be higher, etc. But it doesn't paint that promising a picture for independence... Also, it seems to me that many of the priorities that might lead a voter to be anti-Brexit might also lead a voter to be anti-independence. For example, many were swayed by economic arguments in favour of the status quo in both cases. A remainer might like the idea that, in the case of a 'hard' Brexit, independence would allow Scotland to be in close economic alignment with the EU by rejoining it. On the other hand, in that case, economic alignment with the EU means being not aligned with the rest of the UK, with which Scotland does most of its trade. Conversely, if the Brexit is 'soft' the advantages of rejoining the EU would be relatively slim and so the economic case is in an entirely similar position to 2014 when it put a lot of people off voting for independence.

    On NI, the unionists might not like the arrangements in the withdrawal agreement, but that's hardly going to switch them en masse to nationalists. Similarly, there may be slightly more nationalist MPs than unionist ones, but I'm not convinced how strong that really makes the possibility of an imminent border poll, since it's not reflected in the Stormont assembly, and there's a lot of pressure now to restore the government there due to the dismal performance of both the 'main' parties in the general election.

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