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Thread: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

  1. #18141

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    Real question is, why would he be allowed to run for re-election while being impeached? That should be super ilegal.
    Because impeachment is the investigation process, not the actual declaration of "you officially did something illegal". Being accused of a crime isn't actually doing the crime. (Though in this case Trump very, very much did the crime.) If he was actually removed from office he wouldn't be able to run again.

    They don't need to decide on their final candidate till like February or March. Depending on how these stories keep going Trump might actually be out by then, or so damaged and polling so badly that the party actually stands up to him and doesn't let him run.


    The real question is, Pence is clearly involved. The GOP will be willing to turn on Trump and make him their scapegoat when his polling goes low enough, but they won''t be willing to oust both of them.

    Or maybe they will. President Pelosi for 3 or 4 months wouldn't be any time for her to actually do anything, and they could spend that entire time promoting how awful she is and how injust it all is.
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  2. #18142
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Because impeachment is the investigation process, not the actual declaration of "you officially did something illegal". Being accused of a crime isn't actually doing the crime. (Though in this case Trump very, very much did the crime.) If he was actually removed from office he wouldn't be able to run again.

    They don't need to decide on their final candidate till like February or March. Depending on how these stories keep going Trump might actually be out by then, or so damaged and polling so badly that the party actually stands up to him and doesn't let him run.


    The real question is, Pence is clearly involved. The GOP will be willing to turn on Trump and make him their scapegoat when his polling goes low enough, but they won''t be willing to oust both of them.

    Or maybe they will. President Pelosi for 3 or 4 months wouldn't be any time for her to actually do anything, and they could spend that entire time promoting how awful she is and how injust it all is.
    You are being extremely optimistic. It's admirable.

  3. #18143
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday...10/04/day-988/

    Day 988: Smoking texts

    1/ Text messages reveal how two U.S. ambassadors coordinated with Rudy Giuliani and a top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to leverage a potential White House meeting between Trump and Zelensky into persuading Kiev to publicly commit to investigating Joe Biden. The House Intelligence Committee released the documents and text messages provided by Kurt Volker, a former special envoy to Ukraine, which show Volker and U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland repeatedly stressing that a White House meeting depended on getting the Ukrainians to agree to the exact language that Zelensky would use in announcing an investigation. In August, Volker proposed to Sondland that they have Zelensky cite "alleged involvement of some Ukrainian politicians" in interference in U.S. elections when announcing an investigation. Democrats say the texts are clear evidence that Trump conditioned normal bilateral relations with Ukraine on that country first agreeing "to launch politically motivated investigations." (New York Times / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / NBC News / Reuters / USA Today)
    • Volker told congressional investigators that Giuliani demanded Ukraine specifically commit to investigate involvement in the 2016 election and the firm tied to Joe Biden's son. Volker said Giuliani rejected a draft statement by Ukraine in which the country committed to fighting corruption generally. Instead, Giuliani said the Ukraine statement "should include specific reference to 'Burisma' and '2016.'" (New York Times)
    • Volker: Trump told him he was "skeptical" of Ukraine's leadership because the country "tried to take me down," a reference to the unproven allegations that Ukraine was involved in the 2016 election meddling. In Volker's statement, which he delivered during closed-door testimony, he said that Trump believed "Ukraine was a corrupt country, full of 'terrible people.'" Volker, the former special envoy to Ukraine, also told Congress "at no time" did he take part in an effort to investigate Biden. (CNN / BuzzFeed News)
    • Trump said the Democrats "unfortunately have the votes" to impeach him in the House, but predicted the he would "win" in a trial in the Republican-led Senate. Trump, however, insisted he had said nothing inappropriate during the July call in which he pressed Zelensky to investigate Biden and his son Hunter Biden. (Washington Post)
    • READ the text messages between U.S. diplomats and Ukrainians released by House Democrats. (CNN / New York Times)
    2/ The CIA's general counsel made a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the whistleblower's allegations that Trump abused his office weeks before the complaint became public. Courtney Simmons Elwood first learned about the matter because the whistleblower, a CIA officer, passed his concerns about Trump on to her through a colleague. In a Aug. 14 conference call, Elwood told John Eisenberg, the top legal adviser to the White House National Security Council and the chief of the Justice Department's National Security Division, John Demers, that the allegations merited examination by the Department of Justice. Attorney General William Barr was made aware of the call with Elwood and Eisenberg. Later, Justice Department officials said they didn't consider the conversation a formal criminal referral because it was not in written form. The Justice Department later declined to open an investigation. (NBC News)
    • 📌 Day 980: The whistleblower is a C.I.A. officer who was detailed in the White House at one point. The man has since returned to the C.I.A., but his complaint suggests he was an analyst by training with an understanding of Ukrainian politics. The C.I.A. officer did not work on the communications team that handles calls with foreign leaders, but learned about Trump's conduct "in the course of official interagency business." (New York Times)
    • 📌 Day 981: The White House and the Justice Department learned about the whistleblower complaint against Trump before the formal complaint was passed from the intelligence community. The whistleblower, reportedly a CIA officer, lodged the formal complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community on Aug. 12th. The whistleblower also shared information about potential abuse of power and a White House cover-up with the CIA's top lawyer, Courtney Simmons Elwood, through an anonymous process. Elwood, following policy, told White House and Justice Department officials on Aug. 14th that she received anonymous information detailing concerns about a call between Trump and a foreign leader. The following day, John Demers, the head of the Justice Department's national security division, went to the White House to review a rough transcript of the call. Demers alerted the deputy attorney general, Jeffrey Rosen, and Brian Benczkowski, the head of the department's criminal division, to discuss how to handle the information. The Justice Department then blocked sending the whistleblower complaint to Congress. The inspector general presented the matter to the acting director of national intelligence on Aug. 26th. (New York Times / Wall Street Journal)
    3/ The Treasury Department's inspector general is investigating how the department handled requests for Trump's tax returns, which Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has refused to turn over. Acting Inspector General Rich Delmar said he will investigate who was consulted and how the department came to reject Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal's demands for the records. Neil's committee received information from a federal employee at the end of July alleging that there was "possible misconduct" and "inappropriate efforts to influence" the presidential audit program. (New York Times / Politico / CNN)
    • 📌 Day 985: The House Ways and Means chairman is consulting lawyers about allegations regarding "possible misconduct" and "inappropriate efforts to influence" the Internal Revenue Service's auditing of Trump's taxes. Chairman Richard Neal told reporters that a decision on releasing the complaint depends on the advice he receives from lawyers for the House of Representatives. (CNN / Bloomberg)
    • 📌 Day 987: An Internal Revenue Service official filed a whistleblower complaint that he was told at least one Treasury Department political appointee attempted to improperly interfere with the annual audit of either Trump's or Pence's tax returns. The whistleblower, a career official at the IRS, confirmed that he filed a formal complaint and sent it to the tax committee chairs in both houses of Congress and to the Treasury Department Inspector General for Tax Administration on July 29th. The existence of the complaint was revealed in a court filing months ago, but little about it has become public. (Washington Post)
    4/ Trump blocked Sen. Ron Johnson in August from telling Ukraine's president that U.S. aid was on its way. Johnson raised the issue with Trump in a phone call on Aug. 31, shortly before the senator was due to meet with Zelensky. In the call, Trump rejected the notion that he directed aides to make the nearly $400 million military aid to Ukraine contingent on Kiev investigating the 2016 presidential election and Biden. Johnson said he learned of a potential quid pro quo from Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union. Trump ordered the hold on the military aid a week before his July 25 call with Zelensky. (Wall Street Journal / Milwaukee Journal Sentinel)
    5/ Ukraine's prosecutor general's office is now reviewing a criminal case involving the owner of a natural gas company that employed Biden's son. Prosecutor General Ruslan Ryaboshapka said he intended to review 15 cases in all, including investigations of wealthy Ukrainians, like the owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, where Hunter Biden served on the board until earlier this year. Ryaboshapka said the decision to review the closed cases came after he took office in August – after a July 25 phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The Ryaboshapka didn't say how long the audit would last, but at a news conference in Kiev he said "the key words were not Biden and not Burisma." (Wall Street Journal / New York Times / Washington Post / NBC News / CNN)
    6/ House Democrats subpoenaed the White House for documents about Trump's efforts to pressure Ukrainian officials to target his political rivals. The subpoena was sent to acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney by three Democratic committee chairmen, who now has a two-week deadline of Oct. 18 to comply with the document demand. "Your failure or refusal to comply with the subpoena, including at the direction or behest of the President or others at the White House, shall constitute evidence of obstruction of the House's impeachment inquiry and may be used as an adverse inference against you and the President," wrote chairmen Elijah Cummings, Adam Schiff, and Eliot Engel. (New York Times / Politico / Washington Post / CNN / Associated Press / Axios)
    7/ House Democrats demanded that Pence turn over documents as part of their impeachment investigation into Trump and his call with the Ukrainian president. A letter from the chairmen of the House committees on Foreign Affairs, Intelligence, and Oversight requested all of Pence's records related to Trump's calls with Zelensky, his communications about the calls with federal agencies, and Trump's decision to cancel Pence's trip to Zelensky's inauguration in May. Pence has until Oct. 15th to comply. (CNN / The Guardian / CNBC)
    8/ The White House plans to reject Democrats' request for documents as part of the impeachment inquiry, arguing that until there is a formal vote by the House to begin impeachment proceedings, Congress doesn't have the right to the information. (NBC News)
    9/ Energy Secretary Rick Perry will step down from his post by the end of the year, pledging to cooperate with lawmakers investigating a whistleblower's allegations about Trump's communications with Zelensky. Perry met with Zelensky at least three times while in office. Perry is expected to return to the private sector once he resigns in November. He is among the longest-serving members of Trump’s Cabinet. (Politico / Washington Post / CNN)
    10/ The Pentagon's chief legal officer ordered Defense Department agencies to identify, preserve, and collect all documents related to the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which included the $250 million in military aid to Ukraine that the Trump Administration froze in June. (CNN)
    11/ Attorney General William Barr and the Justice Department have intervened in lawsuits where Trump has personally sued those investigating him. The department recently took Trump's side in a federal lawsuit against the Manhattan district attorney attempting to block a subpoena for Trump's tax returns. In other cases, the Justice Department supported Trump's attempt to block a House Oversight Committee subpoena to his accountants, Mazars USA, seeking his tax returns, and subpoenas to two of Trump's banks, Deutsche Bank and Capital One, seeking documents related to his loans. (Washington Post)
    12/ The Supreme Court agreed to review a restrictive Louisiana abortion law that requires doctors to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles. The Louisiana law, enacted in 2014, would leave the state with only one doctor eligible to perform abortions. The requirement is similar to a Texas law the Supreme Court struck down in 2016, finding it posed an undue burden on a woman's constitutional right to access an abortion. A decision is expected in the summer of 2020. (New York Times / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / Politico / NBC News)
    13/ Iranian hackers targeted Trump's re-election campaign. Earlier in the day, Microsoft said that hackers, with backing from Iran's government, had attempted to identify, attack, and breach 241 email accounts associated with current and former U.S. government officials, journalists, prominent Iranians outside Iran, and one U.S. presidential campaign. Microsoft said it had seen "significant cyber activity" from a group it believes "originates from Iran and is linked to the Iranian government," who made more than 2,700 attempts to identify e-mail addresses between August and September. (Washington Post / New York Times / NBC News)

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  4. #18144

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    You are being extremely optimistic. It's admirable.
    Current polls show 50 percent want the impeachment trial to go through, 39 against... and its those same numbers for "if it get to the senate for a vote."

    ANd those numbers will go up as more details of this crime come forward. That is of course the SAME crime as before but this one is simpler and in public view, so.
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  5. #18145

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Hold on, let my channel all my relatives that served in the Marines/Military/FDNY/NYPD that voted for Trump

    *AHEM*

    "but polls said Hillary would win, and see how that went. Rigged."



    But in all seriousness, the most important aspect of the impeachment is that in the likelihood that shows he will actually face impeachment -regardless of it removing him from office- will COMPLETELY fuck his ego. There are less than single handful, fully intact hands specifically with fingers to count on, number of Presidents to have 'impeached" under their recorded history. And Trump having to be one of these few will completely fuck with his head.


    I mean he's begging on camera for foreign interference to help investigate what he, and only he and the "mainstream media" perceives as his rival. And while you have the Marco Rubios of the political world that will cover this as "Well he's trolling the libs, fuck you for getting triggered", the fact is that in his dumb attempt to "troll the libs" he's incriminating himself further and further.

    And I don't think that being one of the very few Presidents to officially be impeached will stop him from incriminating himself under the weird pretense he thinks is good of "Well just go for it and act like it's NOT illegal and it will be cool".
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  6. #18146
    Ou l‘optimisme Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    I don't know about his ego though... he's enjoying too much being the victim.

  7. #18147
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    I finally registered as Democrat so I can vote in the primaries. Gonna be voting for Elizabeth Warren since when I took the Iside.com quiz, I got her as number one. I'm glad she is getting higher in polls, so hopefully, she get above Joe Biden.


    Sorry all for the late replies >-< (My issues in other words... depression is a bitch.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    China's biggest problem with the one child policy is that for centuries having a son has always been more important than a girl for them (most Asian countries, tbh, or hell the human race in general). Because of this, few families were willing to keep their daughters if they had one, so China was inundated with a LOT of abandoned baby girls and a serious amount of infanticide on top of it. Hence why so many families in the West were adopting Chinese girls, because they had no one to adopt them in their own country.
    Wow, that's just so horrible. For me personally, in the biological sense females are more important than males, as females can reproduce and continue the human race. I should research and try to learn why men were put on top instead of women in this aspect.

    Now China has allowed a family two children, so that problem has waned. However, what people didn't think about was the fact that due to so many people abandoning or killing their daughters they now have an entire generation of people where the men vastly outnumber the women, meaning they now have huge number of bachelors with no wives to make a family with. Because they have no families to concentrate on, China has a lot of young men with nothing to do other than work, which gives them a lot of time to get in trouble or even think rebellious thoughts.
    Yikes. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't know China changed the one child rule, when did this happen?

    A lot of men nowadays in China are apparently going to neighboring countries to get wives, or even buy them, but it doesn't solve the problem entirely. Now that they've seen what happens, and that they can have two children, maybe more people will keep their daughters.
    Yes, exactly. The ugly side of humanity can be quite... awful to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Keep in mind impeachment is not removal, its just a public trial and evidence discovery.
    Oh. I didn't know this. I thought when a president gets impeached he shall be removed from office. Bleh, I have a lot to learn about how government runs. >-<

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    I almost forgot. The way Trump is acting is just making it worse for him. He's just digging in a bigger hole that will be even harder to get out of. He really is not so smart in his actions. This really is "Stupid Watergate" as in the name John Oliver gave for this scandal.

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  8. #18148

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    That perfect phone call that he had every right to make is now totally (about to resign) Energy Secretary Rick Perry's idea and Trumpy never wanted to do it in the first place.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  9. #18149
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    Sorry all for the late replies >-< (My issues in other words... depression is a bitch.)
    Don't worry, take care of yourself first.

    Wow, that's just so horrible. For me personally, in the biological sense females are more important than males, as females can reproduce and continue the human race. I should research and try to learn why men were put on top instead of women in this aspect.
    You would THINK that would be the more logical thing to do, but this is about culture, not biology.

    Yikes. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't know China changed the one child rule, when did this happen?
    China officially began the two-child rule in 2016.

  10. #18150

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    What if Trump gets totally impeached, but he gets re-elected anyway?

  11. #18151
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzMazz View Post
    What if Trump gets totally impeached, but he gets re-elected anyway?
    He most likely will be impeached, but almost certainly won't be removed from office so it doesn't really matter. All this is going to do is rile his base up and give him a fighting chance in 2020.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  12. #18152

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzMazz View Post
    What if Trump gets totally impeached, but he gets re-elected anyway?
    Then both Congress and the American public are unfathomably stupid.

    But I already knew that.

  13. #18153
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    The truth is that Trump is doing at least part of what the people who voted him in wanted him to do, act a fool, and not be a politician. All of those people are stupid, of course, but he absolutely hasn't lost his base and it's hard for me to see it happening. Still, he needs to be impeached. I'd say there's a slim chance that republican senators go for it, but it's worth a try anyway. All of them know that it were only about the law, he'd be out of office, but America will get to see which of their elected officials truly will stand up for the Constitution and justice in general.

  14. #18154

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Trump has now started a #IMPEACHMITTROMNEY. Fun looking through the responds on that hashtag, which I rarely do.

    He's really just senselessly creating more and more enemies. Throwing Pence under the bus. Poor Pence :(

  15. #18155
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by baby-boo View Post
    Trump has now started a #IMPEACHMITTROMNEY. Fun looking through the responds on that hashtag, which I rarely do.

    He's really just senselessly creating more and more enemies. Throwing Pence under the bus. Poor Pence :(
    Perry, too.

    Scoop: Trump pins Ukraine call on Energy Secretary Rick Perry

    https://www.axios.com/trump-blamed-rick-perry-call-ukraine-zelensky-8178447a-0374-4ac6-b321-a9454b0565d4.html

    President Trump told House Republicans that he made his now infamous phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky at the urging of Energy Secretary Rick Perry — a call Trump claimed he didn’t even want to make.

    Behind the scenes: Trump made these comments during a conference call with House members on Friday, according to 3 sources on the call.


    Per the sources, Trump rattled off the same things he has been saying publicly — that his call with Zelensky was "perfect"and he did nothing wrong.
    But he then threw Perry into the mix and said something to the effect of: "Not a lot of people know this but, I didn't even want to make the call. The only reason I made the call was because Rick asked me to. Something about an LNG [liquefied natural gas] plant," one source said, recalling the president's comments. 2 other sources confirmed the first source's recollection.
    Incidentally, the readout of this call released by the White House contains no mention of Perry.

    Also, seems there may be a second whistleblower:

    Lawyer for Ukraine whistleblower says he represents second whistleblower on Trump's actions

    The lawyer for the first intelligence whistleblower who came forward with accusations concerning President Donald Trump and his interactions with Ukraine said Sunday he is representing a second whistleblower regarding the President's actions.

    Attorney Mark Zaid confirmed to CNN that he and other lawyers on his team are now representing the second person, who has first-hand knowledge that supports claims made by the first whistleblower. Zaid told CNN that the second whistleblower works in the intelligence community and has spoken to the intelligence community's inspector general, but has not filed their own complaint and doesn't need to as anyone who speaks to inspector watchdog is considered to have made a protected disclosure and is a whistleblower under law.


    Attorney Andrew Bakaj, also representing the whistleblowers, tweeted Sunday, "I can confirm that my firm and my team represent multiple whistleblowers in connection to the underlying August 12, 2019, disclosure to the Intelligence Community Inspector General. No further comment at this time."


    Bakaj would not provide further details about how many people he and his colleagues are representing regarding the matter. Bakaj said right now there is just one complaint filed with the inspector general and that is including information from both persons.
    ABC first reported Zaid's representation of the second person.

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  16. #18156
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by sgamer82 View Post
    Perry, too.

    Scoop: Trump pins Ukraine call on Energy Secretary Rick Perry

    https://www.axios.com/trump-blamed-rick-perry-call-ukraine-zelensky-8178447a-0374-4ac6-b321-a9454b0565d4.html

    Incidentally, the readout of this call released by the White House contains no mention of Perry.

    Also, seems there may be a second whistleblower:

    Lawyer for Ukraine whistleblower says he represents second whistleblower on Trump's actions
    I'm wondering what Trump would actually have to do for those who voted him in to realize he's not fit for this job. I would say shoot someone, but they cheered him for the idea of it, and it didn't seem to hurt Cheney much.

  17. #18157
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    I thought Trump claimed so adamantly that the phone call was completely innocent ("perfect"), so why, then, would he need someone to blame for it? Trump is cracking.


  18. #18158
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Just realized I forgot to add a link to the second whistleblower story:

    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/06/pol...ine/index.html

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  19. #18159
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman
    Then both Congress and the American public are unfathomably stupid.

    But I already knew that.
    Congress and the American public have always been unfathomably stupid. It's only with the growth of the social media age that we've finally been able to see just how stupid they really are.

    And it's not going to get any better after 2020.

  20. #18160

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Because some of Trump's executive orders effectively do things like

    - Adversely impact the affordable care act
    - Block federal grant money for sanctuary cities
    - Prevent the entry of individuals traveling to the U.S. from specific countries for a certain amount of time.
    - Slash regulations which I presume would include beneficial regulations.
    - Go back to allowing federal contractors to potentially discriminate against LGTBQ individuals.
    - Make it easier for religious institutions to engage in political speech Johnson Amendment be damned.
    - Creates a sham commission to prove that millions of illegal votes costed trump the popular vote (which of course was not true and wasted millions of taxpayer dollars).
    - Allows state and local law enforcement agencies to use hand me down military gear (grenade launchers save lives?).


    We don't yet know what any potential executive orders Bernie would try to push for would look like but at least for now they don't come off looking like bullshit that serve no meaningful purpose or benefit the wrong people like half of Trump's.
    What Trump is doing is certainly wrong and detestable, what I'm saying is two wrongs don't make a right, you can't say what Trump is doing is amoral and wrong and then be like "But it's okay if Bernie does the same exact thing" Were supposed to be better than our enemies and not stoop to there lows

    I don't agree with the idea that Republicans are playing dirty so Democrats must too

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