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Thread: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

  1. #61

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Just started binge watching the new season this morning. Episode 9 was a tad devasating...

    Okay just finished the season. I'm glad it ended on a sweet note. Iirc the seasons don't end on a happy note lol.

    Man this show. It would seriously be super impossible to watch as a live action with actual humans.
    Last edited by Cyclone_Baroness; September 10th, 2017 at 02:09 PM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    ...Binged the whole season tonight. Great stuff.
    Beatrice ep was probably the best, with internal monologue ep as a close second. As always, I'm blown away by how the animal gimmick and all associated verbal/visual gags aren't even the point of the show, when you could easily build several much shallower shows around that concept and execution alone.

    It's like...Ricky and Morty is utter brain candy, but Bojack actually makes me feel feelings. Like "really sad," when it's over.
    ...Welp, time to wait another year.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    I actually thought this season was the weakest. I'll write some full thoughts later, but my main gripe is that it went nowhere and said nothing.
    That's pretty much my take away from this season too.

    Waiting for some kind of pay-off that never really came

  4. #64
    Aspiring Film Critic TLC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Yeah, I easily thought this was the worst season. Out of 12 episodes, I only thought 2 or 3 were any good, a couple were decent but flawed and the rest ranged from meh to terrible. Especially 4 and 5.
    Spoiler:
    I don't know what's worse Diane blackmailing her husband instead of talking with him or her equating women's rights with pro gun rights. Ask a black man how much he feels safe with guns in the streets Diane. Ask a small boy in an elementary school.


    This whole season really felt they're just running out of ideas and that they should just end it already. The cast and crew are obviously really talented but passion does not equal good writing. Something that I felt that was really missing that was present in the other seasons was a narrative thrust, The season did not have any momentum or driving force. It did not have any grand narrative theme gluing everything together like Bojack making a movie or coping to the pressures of the movie's success. I guess you can make a hand wavey claim that it was about finding family but the whole thing just felt so loosely explored and connected and all the side plots felt so tangential, it's hard to feel emotionally gripped by anything. Todd, Diane and Peanutbutter are caricatures of their former selves with Todd doing absolutely nothing and the Peanutbutter governor story going absolutely nowhere.. Princess Caroline's stuff I liked but even that ultimately just returned to the status quo. Also the show always had a problem of balancing tone and it was really terrible this season, it's absolutely fine to punctuate moments of dark drama with some light humor if done right but when you have a scene of a woman having a mental breakdown DURING Bojack being chased by Crab people....like what am I supposed to do at that moment, laugh and cry at the same time? Don't be ridiculous, pick an emotional beat and stick with it for one goddamn scene.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    I'm... not sure where some of y'all are getting the idea that this season's "return to status quo"?
    Spoiler:
    I mean the most obvious aspect is - granted another criticized aspect of the season - how Bojack is mostly absent from everyone else's plotlines, and how they all have to deal with their own screwups without getting to conveniently scapegoat (scapehorse?) him. PC's ultra-competitiveness and need to be in control turning self-destructive as she destroys her two significant post-Bojack relationships while the governor race and Belle room are finally shining the spotlight on the barely underneath flaws of the PB-Diane relationship. Sure you can boil it all down to "PC gets surrounded by idiots and is single again" and "Diane and PB get marriage flaws" but it's glazing through this season's thesis on how the other characters (bar Todd, who I'll admit is a weak link bordering on cariacature-ish levels) can get flawed and messed up in their own ways without the titular horse.

    also where were most of you when Season 2 and 3 aired -__-

  6. #66

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Pachylad View Post
    I'm... not sure where some of y'all are getting the idea that this season's "return to status quo"?
    Spoiler:
    I mean the most obvious aspect is - granted another criticized aspect of the season - how Bojack is mostly absent from everyone else's plotlines, and how they all have to deal with their own screwups without getting to conveniently scapegoat (scapehorse?) him. PC's ultra-competitiveness and need to be in control turning self-destructive as she destroys her two significant post-Bojack relationships while the governor race and Belle room are finally shining the spotlight on the barely underneath flaws of the PB-Diane relationship. Sure you can boil it all down to "PC gets surrounded by idiots and is single again" and "Diane and PB get marriage flaws" but it's glazing through this season's thesis on how the other characters (bar Todd, who I'll admit is a weak link bordering on cariacature-ish levels) can get flawed and messed up in their own ways without the titular horse.

    also where were most of you when Season 2 and 3 aired -__-
    I'm not sure why but, and I see this with a lot of different series, there seems to be this popular idea that lateral movement or backwards movement isn't actual movement and can't provide for development. I find that kind of limiting and I thought there was payoff in every single plotline, tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    you have a scene of a woman having a mental breakdown DURING Bojack being chased by Crab people....like what am I supposed to do at that moment, laugh and cry at the same time? Don't be ridiculous, pick an emotional beat and stick with it for one goddamn scene.
    Spoiler:
    I guess? I dunno, I think demanding one singular emotional beat as opposed to just appreciating the actual nuance of emotions and how they really work is the more frustrating way to watch things, particularly with two different characters in different timelines experiencing different things.
    Last edited by Steven D. Teach; September 18th, 2017 at 04:15 AM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven D. Teach View Post
    I'm not sure why but, and I see this with a lot of different series, there seems to be this popular idea that lateral movement or backwards movement isn't actual movement and can't provide for development.
    Ah, so you read that one review that ruined this season's chance at a 100% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Simons
    I do not like the sad horse guy.
    I find his schtick does not surprise:
    He won’t be kind or empathize;
    He never learns, he hardly tries.

    I get the point, that change is hard;
    That happiness for many’s far
    From simple; that we often are
    No more than all our deepest scars.

    And yet, come on, it’s not so deep.
    It’s basic stuff the show repeats
    In dialogue that tends to creep

    Toward saying the subtext of the beat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Simons
    The author’s voice is all too plain!
    It’s weird how much the show explains
    Its worldview o’er and o’er again
    For what? To justify the pain
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Simons
    Its cast must suffer every day
    In totally redundant ways,
    The same betrayals, the same displays
    Of vanity? It’s overplayed.

    These characters don’t change, but do -
    Within an episode, it’s true -
    They’ll overcome a trial or two
    And not a thing they learn accrues.

    That’s fine! That’s how a sitcom goes.
    But this is not that kind of show;
    In drama’s frame, a sitcom’s tropes
    Ought, I think, make way for growth.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Pachylad View Post
    Ah, so you read that one review that ruined this season's chance at a 100% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes too?


    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Georgia]
    Haha, it's a witty (if not misguided) review, but I think some of the easier to observe criminals of the mindset I was referencing can be found in any given OP spoiler thread.
    Last edited by Steven D. Teach; September 18th, 2017 at 10:53 PM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    I'm having a hard time reconciling these claims that this season is the weakest season with the mediocrity that was most of season 1. It also doesn't help that even upon rewatching the season a second and third time over, I think I still maintain that this season is on par with 2 or 3, and in some respects, surpasses the both of them.

    I've already tried articulating my reasoning and failed, so I'm not really interested in doing that again.

    you have a scene of a woman having a mental breakdown DURING Bojack being chased by Crab people....like what am I supposed to do at that moment, laugh and cry at the same time? Don't be ridiculous, pick an emotional beat and stick with it for one goddamn scene.
    https://literarydevices.net/juxtaposition/

  10. #70

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Season 1 was uneven but packed alot of punch.

    Season 4 was entirely even, with (to me) no real highlights that kicked my gut in.

  11. #71
    Aspiring Film Critic TLC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    The two scenes have literally nothing to do with each other thematically or emotionally and don't compliment each other in anyway. The only connection is the fact that they just happen to be taking place in the same area in two different timelines. You can't just throw in a word like juxtaposition and expect it to make it alright. It doesn't make the breakdown scene sadder and it doesn't make the crab scene funnier. The two scenes don't serve each other in any way and only distract from each other. Putting a scene of coping with the horrific loss of your child alongside stupid three stooges shenanigans is ridiculous. It'd be juxtaposition if Bojack were also having an emotional breakdown at that exact moment, it'd say something about the cyclical nature of depression and how it can carry across generations (which is actually one of the strongest themes of the season with how episode 11 showed how his mom turned into an emotional mess which in turn made her turn him into an emotional mess), him goofily running from Crab people adds nothing to that narrative.

  12. #72
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachylad View Post
    I'm... not sure where some of y'all are getting the idea that this season's "return to status quo"?
    Spoiler:
    I mean the most obvious aspect is - granted another criticized aspect of the season - how Bojack is mostly absent from everyone else's plotlines, and how they all have to deal with their own screwups without getting to conveniently scapegoat (scapehorse?) him. PC's ultra-competitiveness and need to be in control turning self-destructive as she destroys her two significant post-Bojack relationships while the governor race and Belle room are finally shining the spotlight on the barely underneath flaws of the PB-Diane relationship. Sure you can boil it all down to "PC gets surrounded by idiots and is single again" and "Diane and PB get marriage flaws" but it's glazing through this season's thesis on how the other characters (bar Todd, who I'll admit is a weak link bordering on cariacature-ish levels) can get flawed and messed up in their own ways without the titular horse.

    also where were most of you when Season 2 and 3 aired -__-
    Spoiler:
    Bojack starts the season after running away at the end of the last one, then immediately returns and not much really comes of the whole endeavor. It turns out not to strain any of his relationships, even though they hinted at that happening with Diane neurotically texting him. When they finally reunite, nothing comes of that at all. They also fail to connect Bojack's time in Michigan to the plot with his mother, which they show at the time, since he doesn't really reflect on it at all until the daughter/sister comes into the picture. You would think the daughter/sister plot would go somewhere, but it ends with her out of the picture, anyways. I guess their relationship turned out sort of positive? But she ultimately serves no purpose in the season, since her whole problem turned out not to even involve Bojack. You would think her purpose was to connect with the mother plot, but that one is completely zero sum and nothing happens in it. Turns out Bojack's mom is loony and in an old folks home. And then it ends with her loony in an old folks home. You can't even really attach what she did to the daughter/sister to her character, since it wasn't a conscious decision. Just some drama that happened and then stopped happening? Princess Caroline loses another relationship and is single again, woo. PB and Diane have a bad marriage, woo. Those don't tell us anything new about the characters at all. The latter's particularly grating since it's been a will they won't they of divorce ever since the marriage started. Plus, within that plot in particular, the governor thing actually goes nowhere and just stops being a thing midway through the season. I guess Todd gets a girlfriend? But really, who gives a shit about Todd.

    Maybe they would have a point about the characters being shitty even without Bojack, except that Bojack's there, anyways, but distracted. Plus, we knew they were assholes without Bojack, anyways, since they were all extreme personalities to begin with. If Bojack were really missing the entire season, then maybe they coulda made that point, or if they actually made some sort of statement about the characters viewing Bojack as the source of their problems. This coulda been accomplished if the side characters interacted at all, but their plots are all entirely self-contained. If the side characters don't interact with the main character and they don't interact each other, then why are we following any of them? There might as well be 3-4 separate shows going on at once.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steven D. Teach View Post
    I'm not sure why but, and I see this with a lot of different series, there seems to be this popular idea that lateral movement or backwards movement isn't actual movement and can't provide for development. I find that kind of limiting and I thought there was payoff in every single plotline, tbh.
    I really don't see any of that movement, though, unless you count spinning in place. That could be used to effect. Like it strikes me as if one of the points the series is trying to make is something about this cycle of depression that keeps people from ever moving forward or backward in their lives. Not enough motivation to really improve, just enough good and comfort to prevent from sinking lower. I don't think they've ever really made a point of it, though, and I see several things that undermine that idea. Last season ended with supposedly everything changing. We knew Bojack would return somehow, but if the series wasn't renewed, it would have ended with Bojack actually escaping. This season ends with Bojack in a bit more of a positive place. If the series ended here, then it would be with Bojack having grown, but by the time we see season 5, we'll either see that reversed or they'll continue this Bojack upswing. You either get a confused direction or come to the conclusion that they aren't trying to make a point about it and really are just going nowhere.
    Last edited by Wagomu; September 19th, 2017 at 06:46 AM.

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  13. #73
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Finished it this weekend. Hilarious as always, and I'm still realing from episodes 9 and 12. This has some of the most human, gut-wrenching writing I've ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    Nah, was a little bit dicky of me to just come charging with the negative and little explanation, haha.

    I'm really not sure what messages you could be talking about tho.

    Spoiler:
    Episode 6 has some thoughts on depression and anxiety? That was a good ep, but it sorta stands by itself as maybe the strongest element in the season. Even then, I think it was a little unfocused of an ep and just has a good throughline and end that don't mesh all that well with the rest. I guess there was stuff about family, but did it really say anything about family? They kinda just gave us some set pieces like Bojack being a little uncharacteristically nice, which they were trying to connect to the mother plot, but that never really resonated with me. I don't think there was enough focus on Bojack's relationship with his mom, anyways, to justify that. You can say there were messages about marriage? Except the Caroline and Diane/Peanut Butter plots aren't connected or compared in any real way, and something only really happens with the latter at the very end of the season, left to be explored in the next one.

    I think anything that could be said on any of those topics also gets undermined by the return to status quo. The depression and anxiety stuff is kinda standard Bojack, the family relationships all sorta reset by the end, and the romantic ones leave Caroline single again and Diane and Peanut Butter in marital strife, both of which are things we've seen before.

    I guess I'm really just annoyed by the status quo and the continued ultimate safeness of the show. As much as it lampoons old school sitcoms, at its core it isn't much better.

    It was definetely noticeable that there was less of a unifying narrative thrust, with everyone being relatively seperated plot-wise, but I thought the season was thematically strong.
    Spoiler:

    For Bojack himself, I saw the season as being about familial trauma; how tragedies fester and build up, and how trauma gets passed on through the generations. About how people who are hurt hurt others in return, and how Bojacks greatest fear is that he'll Bojack things up with his "daughter". Bojack faces down the trauma of his past, while trying to avoid passing it to the future. While the whole situation might've been shitty, Beatrices' decision to have Hollyhock severed for the family ultimately proved to be benign- she got to grow up detached from the infectious toxicity of the Horseman/Sugarman family. The season also teases a "Natural" component to the voices in Bojack and Hollyhocks minds, but the fact that Hollyhock was subjected to a "Nurturing" enviroment puts her miles ahead.


    I also saw it as being about time, as referenced in the Bojack family motto and across several episode titles. More specifically, about how time marches on, and may pass you by while you‘re stuck in your own misery, unwilling to change. Bojack starts the season entombed in a shrine to his own familys past, and moves on by acknowledging this, and tearing it down. Beatrice is trapped in the past in her mind, as time has robbed her of her senses before either she or Bojack could get any closure with each other. They waited too long, just like Bojack did with his dad. But when gets his one chance to tear into his mother…he lets go. Theres no point anymore.

    Beatrice also let time pass her by in her marriage, refusing to end it seemingly out of spite, to the detriment of everyone. Likewise, Mr Peanutbutter and Dianes marriage has been on autopilot for a while, but to an extra high degree within this season. Diane constantly tells herself that it’ll be better once the campaign is over, and things go back to normal, that its okay as long as she remembers the positive “core” of the marriage. “Pretend to be happy,a nd eventually forget you’re pretending”, Bojack advises. After the campaign ends, the couple jumps straight into another distraction to postpone “normal life”, but once that resumes, Diane acknowledges that she can’t keep living like this. Unlike Beatrice.
    Time has also passed Princess Carolyn by in a very real, biological sense, and she too struggles to acknowledge it. She’s Princess Carolyn, she can do anything by herself! Her mother had 12 children, her body was made to have babies! She’s too hung up on her definition of “familial perfection”, and her unwillingness to compromise wrecks her relationship.

    I also disagree about the status quo being unchanged; Bojack may be inching himself back into his friends lives, but he's also taking steps towards becoming a fundamentally more healthy person, with the toxic specter of his mother partially disarmed, and an honest to god positive familial relation- one with her own support network, to stop Bojack from fucking her up, like he did Sarah Lynn. Bojack in fact grows so much that he instantly agrees to help Princess Carolyn, the same person he threw under the bus in her time of need last season. He’s becoming less hung up on the past, more willing to move forward, less of a force for destruction in their lives, more of a supportive confidant in times of grief.

    Bojack grows so much that he changes his ringtone.

    Todd is mostly comic relief, but is also growing more independent- in one episode he literally rejects being a "one note character" by going to the Aces meeting. And after four seasons of escalating tension, Diane finally pulls the plug on her marriage with Mr Peanutbutter - that wasn't just strife, that was "Divorce". After a conversation about how mister Peanutbutter doesn’t want her to end up like his (in this season, prominently featured) ex-wives, Diane ends the conversation by breaking down that she’s literally tired of trying to look for the good in her marriage. And princess Carolyn may revert to being single, but she does it by self destructing so bad that her dream of doing everything by herself and doing it perfectly (i.e. not being willing to adopt a child) starts to crack at the end.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    The two scenes have literally nothing to do with each other thematically or emotionally and don't compliment each other in anyway. The only connection is the fact that they just happen to be taking place in the same area in two different timelines. You can't just throw in a word like juxtaposition and expect it to make it alright. It doesn't make the breakdown scene sadder and it doesn't make the crab scene funnier. The two scenes don't serve each other in any way and only distract from each other. Putting a scene of coping with the horrific loss of your child alongside stupid three stooges shenanigans is ridiculous. It'd be juxtaposition if Bojack were also having an emotional breakdown at that exact moment, it'd say something about the cyclical nature of depression and how it can carry across generations (which is actually one of the strongest themes of the season with how episode 11 showed how his mom turned into an emotional mess which in turn made her turn him into an emotional mess), him goofily running from Crab people adds nothing to that narrative.
    The conceit of the episode was having past and present play out at the same time. In both halves of that scene, the characters are sort of living in their pasts (Honey and the dragonfly duet are when it's most evocative). Even in Bojack's caper, he's in the midst of reclaiming the windvane. The point of that specific moment in the scene is that Bojack and his antics become background noise. They aren't playing two beats at the same time because in Bojack's timeline, there is no beat being played. The whole "something serious happens in the foreground while something ridiculous happens in the background" is a well-worn comedic device. Just because it's not quite thematic juxtaposition, that doesn't mean it's not tonal juxtaposition. Even though I'd argue it's thematic juxtaposition all the same.

    It'd be juxtaposition if Bojack were also having an emotional breakdown at that exact moment
    No it wouldn't. That's not what juxtaposition is.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Season 1 was uneven but packed alot of punch.

    Season 4 was entirely even, with (to me) no real highlights that kicked my gut in.
    I think this is ultimately subjective, because I've said it before, but this season got to me in ways no previous season did, probably four times over. Which I mean, if it didn't work for you, that's totally fine and stuff. I'm not going to argue or make light of how something made you feel. It's the comments like "this show is terrible and needs to end" that I take issue with. I've already argued about this at length, but I just really don't like that attitude. *shrug*

  15. #75
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Honestly, if the show does end here, I'd call it a solid finale. But...my heart wants it to continue. Despite all the shows' warnings, my heart still buys into the hope of happy endings.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    Honestly, if the show does end here, I'd call it a solid finale. But...my heart wants it to continue. Despite all the shows' warnings, my heart still buys into the hope of happy endings.
    eh? I consider Bojack to be one of the more optimistic (Western?) adult cartoons out there (atm the only one I'd consider more optimistic/idealistic is Bob's Burgers). As much as it puts its characters through the ringer, I also get the sense it cares for them and does wish for them to overcome their shortcomings and ultimately succeed.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    Spoiler:
    Bojack starts the season after running away at the end of the last one, then immediately returns and not much really comes of the whole endeavor. It turns out not to strain any of his relationships, even though they hinted at that happening with Diane neurotically texting him. When they finally reunite, nothing comes of that at all. They also fail to connect Bojack's time in Michigan to the plot with his mother, which they show at the time, since he doesn't really reflect on it at all until the daughter/sister comes into the picture. You would think the daughter/sister plot would go somewhere, but it ends with her out of the picture, anyways. I guess their relationship turned out sort of positive? But she ultimately serves no purpose in the season, since her whole problem turned out not to even involve Bojack. You would think her purpose was to connect with the mother plot, but that one is completely zero sum and nothing happens in it. Turns out Bojack's mom is loony and in an old folks home. And then it ends with her loony in an old folks home. You can't even really attach what she did to the daughter/sister to her character, since it wasn't a conscious decision. Just some drama that happened and then stopped happening? Princess Caroline loses another relationship and is single again, woo. PB and Diane have a bad marriage, woo. Those don't tell us anything new about the characters at all. The latter's particularly grating since it's been a will they won't they of divorce ever since the marriage started. Plus, within that plot in particular, the governor thing actually goes nowhere and just stops being a thing midway through the season. I guess Todd gets a girlfriend? But really, who gives a shit about Todd.

    Maybe they would have a point about the characters being shitty even without Bojack, except that Bojack's there, anyways, but distracted. Plus, we knew they were assholes without Bojack, anyways, since they were all extreme personalities to begin with. If Bojack were really missing the entire season, then maybe they coulda made that point, or if they actually made some sort of statement about the characters viewing Bojack as the source of their problems. This coulda been accomplished if the side characters interacted at all, but their plots are all entirely self-contained. If the side characters don't interact with the main character and they don't interact each other, then why are we following any of them? There might as well be 3-4 separate shows going on at once.




    I really don't see any of that movement, though, unless you count spinning in place. That could be used to effect. Like it strikes me as if one of the points the series is trying to make is something about this cycle of depression that keeps people from ever moving forward or backward in their lives. Not enough motivation to really improve, just enough good and comfort to prevent from sinking lower. I don't think they've ever really made a point of it, though, and I see several things that undermine that idea. Last season ended with supposedly everything changing. We knew Bojack would return somehow, but if the series wasn't renewed, it would have ended with Bojack actually escaping. This season ends with Bojack in a bit more of a positive place. If the series ended here, then it would be with Bojack having grown, but by the time we see season 5, we'll either see that reversed or they'll continue this Bojack upswing. You either get a confused direction or come to the conclusion that they aren't trying to make a point about it and really are just going nowhere.
    Spoiler:

    Spinning in place and depression being a vicious cycle linked to your own fetishization of sadness, self-inflicted problems, and simply just not being attentive to your own behavior has been a point though. It's come up in conversations with Diane, Cuddlywhiskers, and Todd several times, even at the show's biggest moments. Last season ended with change, yeah, but I don't think it was "everything changing", per se, moreso Bojack simply running away after the lowest point in his life. Him going to the Sugarman home hints at one root of this being trauma past over generations of a broken family, starting in the episode where TLC introduced his own personal definition of juxtaposition.

    At the end of every season, Bojack has terminated or sabotaged a loved one in his life partially because of circumstance, but also by not seeing his own awful behavior related to it (why they use fuck once per season--they swerved this season by having him kinda comedically say that is what he would tell his mother if she were ever lucid, but by the end of the season he has changed so much he breaks down and comforts her when he has the chance), but this time, the pattern of a relationship being ruined is reintroduced with the OD, and right as we think it's been ruined for him again, it isn't. Hollyhock is accepting of him and Bojack doesn't have to worry about his struggle to change because he hates himself so much, because she is accepting of him as a brother due to the (admittedly struggling) efforts he tried to put in as a father, so he got a glimpse of how trying to be good can pay off when it didn't before-you even see him immediately accept the PC job. So yeah, the show ends with the possibility of him finally growing and accepting the lessons people have tried to give him (as well as breaking the trauma his family had been passing around), or him succumbing to his own self-loathing in one way or another. You seem to have decided you don't like either road, which is cool, but neither is inconsistent with what the show has been getting at if you ask me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Inferno View Post
    The conceit of the episode was having past and present play out at the same time. In both halves of that scene, the characters are sort of living in their pasts (Honey and the dragonfly duet are when it's most evocative). Even in Bojack's caper, he's in the midst of reclaiming the windvane. The point of that specific moment in the scene is that Bojack and his antics become background noise. They aren't playing two beats at the same time because in Bojack's timeline, there is no beat being played. The whole "something serious happens in the foreground while something ridiculous happens in the background" is a well-worn comedic device. Just because it's not quite thematic juxtaposition, that doesn't mean it's not tonal juxtaposition. Even though I'd argue it's thematic juxtaposition all the same.



    No it wouldn't. That's not what juxtaposition is.
    Spoiler:
    That's all true. Also one cause of Bojack's depression is the trauma and junk passed down via generations of a broken family. He either unwittingly or subconsciously goes to the Sugarman place as a way of dealing with this. It makes total sense to show what he doesn't know happened there before. Outside of it being an interesting creative choice, I think showing them side by side is a way of linking the him back to it, and a broken home he tries to rebuild but ends of just wanting to get rid of. Or y'know, juxtaposition lol
    Last edited by Steven D. Teach; September 21st, 2017 at 04:38 AM.

  18. #78
    Just badass Sano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Bojack Horseman is getting a fifth season.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/09/...n-for-season-5

  19. #79
    Just badass Sano's Avatar
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    Keokuk, Iowa

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Bojack Horseman Season 5 comes out on September 14th.

    https://deadline.com/2018/06/bojack-...te-1202418220/

  20. #80
    The Tetsuo Ishimaru of AP Gizmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    I hacked ultimateclima's account

    Default Re: Netflix Original Series Bojack Horseman

    Hoping Bojack doesn’t backslide given Penny’s gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwing
    Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

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