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Thread: Oda's Interviews

  1. #2101
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Making an arrangement where they agree for you to steal from them compared to not talking to them at all. How nice of them. Just waiting for the right 3rd party to come along and advocate for a more fair share, honestly. It's gonna come and it's gonna take a long time. A lot of mangaka are just happy for their manga to be serialized. Imagine speaking up on fair pay? Oh God lol

    Many of the fans are gonna have to pick a side after awkwardly fighting for the greedy company for so long. This will be hilarious.
    No one but you is going to have trouble with this at all. The only fans who will be mad will be the ones not willing to pay a few bucks a month to access manga when it's all online first. I, and I'm sure most posters here, agree that the way most manga magazines operate is pretty antiquated, but I don't think it's even an argument whether stealing is worse than underpaying.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Wrong. I buy volumes and read scans whenever I want. I don't support. If clicking on a page or buying a volume is support, then that is not my intention. That is charity. Not gonna shame the pure soul that cares for the marketing team and the resources that they use or anyone that wants to throw up some spoilers.

    I've said that both are stealing multiple times, but you twist into justifying it. This brainwashing is deep. They really got yall.
    The sign of a lazy thinker in 2019 is thinking that everyone who disagrees with them is brainwashed.

  2. #2102

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    No one but you is going to have trouble with this at all. The only fans who will be mad will be the ones not willing to pay a few bucks a month to access manga when it's all online first. I, and I'm sure most posters here, agree that the way most manga magazines operate is pretty antiquated, but I don't think it's even an argument whether stealing is worse than underpaying.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    The sign of a lazy thinker in 2019 is thinking that everyone who disagrees with them is brainwashed.
    If they can convince gullible people that they are supporting a mangaka in an antiquated way, then it'll be easy to say "look they're not paying them fairly". So, you're saying that the company not paying fairly is better than fighting for fair pay? Oh God, this is hilarious.

    Thinking that a scan site is different from someone that arranged the stealing isn't what you looked up. Someone fed you the dream that they are different and that is why it is brainwashing. That's why you have yet to provide the splits. All you need to know is what they've convinced you of and you're spewing their talking points with passion. That is brainwashing

    Update: A lazy thinker uses others to say that their point is valid, instead of standing on their square no matter who agrees or disagrees. Just a jewel. Confidence and self esteem is key. Think for yourself and don't look to majority opinion for validation.

  3. #2103
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    If they can convince gullible people that they are supporting a mangaka in an antiquated way, then it'll be easy to say "look they're not paying them fairly". So, you're saying that the company not paying fairly is better than fighting for fair pay? Oh God, this is hilarious.

    Thinking that a scan site is different from someone that arranged the stealing isn't what you looked up. Someone fed you the dream that they are different and that is why it is brainwashing. That's why you have yet to provide the splits. All you need to know is what they've convinced you of and you're spewing their talking points with passion. That is brainwashing

    This argument was never about you fighting for fair pay, it was you equating stealing to underpaying. It's not difficult for anyone but you to understand that theft is morally worse than underpaying and that they are different things. You also don't seem to understand economics in general, which has been hilarious to watch.

  4. #2104

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    This argument was never about you fighting for fair pay, it was you equating stealing to underpaying. It's not difficult for anyone but you to understand that theft is morally worse than underpaying and that they are different things. You also don't seem to understand economics in general, which has been hilarious to watch.
    Someone acknowledges the stealing on both sides, but still sees them as different lol. You're getting there. Just a little more thought

  5. #2105
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Someone acknowledges the stealing on both sides, but still sees them as different lol. You're getting there. Just a little more thought
    Nope. What Shueisha is doing isn't theft, by definition. If you need to use the term for your emotional appeals, be aware that they don't affect me lol.

  6. #2106

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    Nope. What Shueisha is doing isn't theft, by definition. If you need to use the term for your emotional appeals, be aware that they don't affect me lol.
    I'm not policing or shaming anyone for paying for scan sites or Jump. Just saying they're the same. Piracy police like you are the ones who are stuck with trying to write persuasion essays. You have a rough job that affects no one

  7. #2107
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    I'm not policing or shaming anyone for paying for scan sites or Jump. Just saying they're the same. Piracy police like you are the ones who are stuck with trying to write persuasion essays. You have a rough job that affects no one
    They aren't the same, no matter how much you want to make them out to be. I've been repeating myself, to be honest, so it hasn't been that rough. Nowhere near as rough as trying to brainwash people to think that not stealing is stealing.

  8. #2108
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Making an arrangement where they agree for you to steal from them compared to not talking to them at all. How nice of them.Just waiting for the right 3rd party to come along and advocate for a more fair share, honestly. It's gonna come and it's gonna take a long time. A lot of mangaka are just happy for their manga to be serialized. Imagine speaking up on fair pay? Oh God lol
    There's an arrangement for them to manifacture and distribute the product in exchange for parts of the profits. Something the current owner(s) can agree or refuse and even possibly amend. With piracy distribution of the product is done without any consent from the owner(s).

    A pirate can give away Oda's product without his consent. A publisher give away Oda's product based on what they have agreed with Oda. In one case the owner choose what he wants to do with his product. In the other the pirate choose what to do with the owner's product.

    Now you can say there should be be better agreements or a bigger say. But it is not the same as not having no agreement and no say at all. And more importantly it's not someone else

    Many of the fans are gonna have to pick a side after awkwardly fighting for the greedy company for so long. This will be hilarious.
    I think you are overestimating how much the readers care about behind the scenes. When I bought Angels and demons it was because I wanted to read something I found interesting not because I think the company pays Dan Brown well. I have no idea if he does or who publishes his book and same goes for most people.

    Their interest is in getting the product not arbitrating what the shares of the different parties are or should be. I have read both scans and official product with no regards who it profits.



  9. #2109

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    They aren't the same, no matter how much you want to make them out to be. I've been repeating myself, to be honest, so it hasn't been that rough. Nowhere near as rough as trying to brainwash people to think that not stealing is stealing.
    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    There's an arrangement for them to manifacture and distribute the product in exchange for parts of the profits. Something the current owner(s) can agree or refuse and even possibly amend. With piracy distribution of the product is done without any consent from the owner(s).

    A pirate can give away Oda's product without his consent. A publisher give away Oda's product based on what they have agreed with Oda. In one case the owner choose what he wants to do with his product. In the other the pirate choose what to do with the owner's product.

    Now you can say there should be be better agreements or a bigger say. But it is not the same as not having no agreement and no say at all. And more importantly it's not someone else


    I think you are overestimating how much the readers care about behind the scenes. When I bought Angels and demons it was because I wanted to read something I found interesting not because I think the company pays Dan Brown well. I have no idea if he does or who publishes his book and same goes for most people.

    Their interest is in getting the product not arbitrating what the shares of the different parties are or should be. I have read both scans and official product with no regards who it profits.
    Since we're going over definitions.

    Underpay - pay less than is due

    What is due? I really hope they are paying what is due. Where is the money that is due going? Can editors and assistants not get paid while the mangaka gets paid fairly? "It's impossible because they convinced me it isn't possible" lol.

    The people you guys chose to "support" stole in a nicer way. They're are the same.

    This whole "support the creatives" marketing ploy is based on behind the scenes. If you didn't care, there would be no issue with either of the thieves.

  10. #2110

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    not because I think the company pays Dan Brown well. I have no idea if he does or who publishes his book and same goes for most people.
    Generally an author gets 3$ per hardcover sold, and 1$ per paperback, and digital copies somewhere inbetween depending on the storefront. This may vary with huge names like Steven King, but thats the general standard.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  11. #2111
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    The people you guys chose to "support" stole in a nicer way. They're are the same.
    Imagine a chair in a store. Janice steals that chair and sells it or give it as a gift.

    Maybe that store has shitty practice. Maybe Janice gave the chair to a struggling mother. I would still stay Janice stole the chair and the store didn't. And that Janice and the store are not the same. One went through the proper channel to get the chair and the right to use it as they see fit, the other didn't.

    I don't know if you are using the term stealing as an hyperbole or not If not I strongly disagree with it. You have to take something without consent to steal something.<br>
    This whole "support the creatives" marketing ploy is based on behind the scenes.
    Procuring/Selling/distributing products you don't own don't have to do with creatives. It would be the same if someone took a chair from a factory without any right legal right to do so.

    If you didn't care, there would be no issue with either of the thieves.
    I was talking in general not me personally. I meant most people that buy a chair or a juice or a book don't ponder the distribution of the money they pay. So them suddenly considering themselves monsters because now authors gets 30% more of the profits seems pretty unlikely. They'll just continue their lives since they never took a stance to begin with an most likely don't even know the details.

    If you talking me personally I've read plenty of scans. They are convenient. Doesn't mean I don't know they are doing something illegal and that they don't have the right to do. Same way I have pissed in a street corner before when there wasn't an open bathroom close to me. It was convenient. Doesn't mean I don't know I was doing something illegal and don't have the right to do.

    We clearly disagree on what a thief is. Equating a legitimate business to an illegal act is not something we are going to agree on.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Generally an author gets 3$ per hardcover sold, and 1$ per paperback, and digital copies somewhere inbetween depending on the storefront. This may vary with huge names like Steven King, but thats the general standard.
    That's probably better than I was expecting. I expected incrementing pay more than a share in every book in terms of industry standard.

    Also I wasn't expecting a respond on that so thanks for the surprising bit of trivia.



  12. #2112

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    That's probably better than I was expecting. I expected incrementing pay more than a share in every book in terms of industry standard.

    Also I wasn't expecting a respond on that so thanks for the surprising bit of trivia.
    There's also up front payments that depending on the publisher and expected sales can be *quite* large that justify the years spent crafting a book. Obviously a book that sells a million is going to pay the author better than one that sells 100. But the after-payments work out like that.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  13. #2113
    Discovered Stowaway MajinArekkusu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Is this Cockycent idiot really arguing that piracy is the same as shueisha selling the manga? Scansites fill their pockets giving absolutely nothing to creators. Must be following the Digibro holy church.
    To support Viz and SHUEISHAs MANGA Plus service hosting all Jump manga for FREE, WORLDWIDE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version.

  14. #2114

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Man I can get behind some good anticap talk. Big corporations are cancer, monopolies should be broken up and almost no one below executive level in any industry is getting paid what they deserve while the executives rake in far too much. Fuck the system and all that. But our friend Cockycent has to be jumping through a mental hoops to make it seem like going with the guys who will underpay Oda is worse than going with the guys who won't pay him at all. I get it, Shueisha is big enough and old enough that there's 0% chance they haven't gone some shady business shit or backed some odious people that you wouldn't want any fraction of your money supporting. And Oda's plainly rich enough he doesn't need the small bits of money that reach him from a Viz subscription or a MangaPlus ad. This isn't some indie bit of work that will die if not paid for, I get that.

    And I get that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, but there's also no way to avoid consuming all together. You support what you want to see more of, making peace with the fact that not every cent can go straight to the people directly responsible for it, and speak up about changes you want to see when you can. It's not that huge a moral compromise to buy a comic you like from a publisher you don't. You can do far worse.

    I think Cockycent's heart is in the right place talking about being mindful about corporations underpaying creators and weaponising creator loyalty as a way to keep people buying, buuuuuuut somehow I get the impression from the "underpay vs no pay" gymnastics that for One Piece, it's more just about reading it sooner. MangaPlus costs the same as Jaimini's Box with even less transparency about where their ad revenue is going.

  15. #2115

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    All these posts speculating about business models �� Have any of you even tried contacting Shueisha or Viz to find out how it works? It’s not that hard to get in contact with them. I mean, really. Mental gymnastics to avoid paying the price of a happy meal every month for great content.

  16. #2116

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by MajinArekkusu View Post
    Is this Cockycent idiot really arguing that piracy is the same as shueisha selling the manga? Scansites fill their pockets giving absolutely nothing to creators. Must be following the Digibro holy church.
    Hope your herder sees this. You're doing great

  17. #2117

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    We clearly disagree on what a thief is. Equating a legitimate business to an illegal act is not something we are going to agree on.
    First, off I agree with almost everything you are saying.

    I think the question Cockycent is purposing is whether it is a "legitimate business."

    In another scenario, imagine a corrupt government taxing its people who receive little benefit . An illegal cartel provides infrastructure and stability to the same people. Who should the people owe their loyalty?

    I personally, read the scans because it is easy to find and quick. I buy hard copies when they come out to relieve my guilt.

  18. #2118

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    It is a legit business. That's why sheep are conditioned to think that it's different from stealing. Slavery was a legit business at 1 point. Ethics change by what society allows. Oda agreed to it, so it's ok.

    Also, I don't know where the guilt comes from, Anbutanaka. I do the exact same thing, just that I go for box sets and not a mag that probably has series that I don't care for.

    I have an exam in 2 hours, so I hope the sheep don't think i'm ignoring them. I'll be back because this is a fruitful discussion.

  19. #2119
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Are you people just ignoring the fact that there is a free official app from Shueisha releasing the chapters (let's go at it again) for FREE every Sunday? The only difference between the official and the scanlation is that one is better and pays the people behind the work, but comes out 2-3 days later than the guys who scan the magazine before it's supposed to be sold and make money off it without the consent of the people who actually work to realize it? And is this guy really saying that making profit is the same as stealing? Really? Because that is the ridiculous lefty equivalent of the ultraliberal idiots who spout that taxation is theft.

  20. #2120

    Default Re: Oda's Interviews

    Shueisha contractually publishing and distributing a written work to a wide audience with the author's consent is not even remotely comparable to the industry of slavery. Not even close.
    Last edited by JDub; October 3rd, 2019 at 08:42 PM.

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