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Thread: Disney animation thread

  1. #6241
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Part of the Disney love is the familiarity. It's like coming home.

  2. #6242
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Adding this to my "Times I Wish I Knew Chinese" list:

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  3. #6243

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    The facial expressions on the grandma are great
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  4. #6244

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    This isn't exactly right for this thread, but there's really no where else to put it-

    LeFou will be more explicitly gay in Beauty and the Beast


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  5. #6245
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    I need a wingman like LeFou in my life.

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  6. #6246
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Considering how Gaston looks, I don't blame him



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  7. #6247

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    So Doug Walker and Lindsay Ellis did something recently:



    Last edited by Pachylad; March 2nd, 2017 at 07:22 AM. Reason: *brainfart*

  8. #6248
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachylad View Post
    So Doug Jones and Lindsay Ellis did something recently:



    Don't you mean Doug Walker?

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  9. #6249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Don't you mean Doug Walker?
    gaaaah mixed him up with the Cinema Snob Brad Jones, thanks for the correction, Count

    where are your multi-block counter-analyses wherre arrreee theeey

  10. #6250
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachylad View Post
    gaaaah mixed him up with the Cinema Snob Brad Jones, thanks for the correction, Count

    where are your multi-block counter-analyses wherre arrreee theeey
    You want me to type up critiques to the videos lol? I've only had time to watch Doug's, but as far as his thoughts go, it's a pretty good video. I was thinking along those lines as well for quite some time, but didn't look as much into how standards for villains and twists change with the time. The only thing I take issue with is Hades being the last great quotable Disney villain when Doug should have mentioned this gal:

    Spoiler:




    However, I feel like the video has this implication (even though I'm sure Doug isn't close-minded enough to think this) of how there can seemingly only be a good villain if they're despicable from the start. While that's often entertaining to see, there can be villains that are both memorably charming and complex in motivations/philosophies. You just have to make them entertaining characters and not just focus on them being a vehicle for a cool twist. Have the twists be inventive payoffs to their characters being built-up and visibly developed rather than them being two-faced all of a sudden with very little connection to their previous type of portrayal. Stinky Pete and Hans didn't fall flat because they were twist, they failed because the execution was half-assedly disjointed. There can be a balance between the merits of both worlds between classic and modern Disney villains/stories.

    And I am never a fan of either the hero or villain hugely overshadowing one another and only being thought of as tools for one another. They should both be charismatic and be complementary for the story's quality in their story roles and screentime. Don't think of one side as just a means to an end in making a hero or villain look good. Make the means of developing compelling characters your ends for both parties. Disney just has lackluster villain writing nowadays and doesn't seem to really care about investing time into making cool villains like they used to. As Ferb once said in Phineas & Ferb, a hero's a hero, but everyone loves a great villain.

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  11. #6251

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Where do I post this again?

  12. #6252
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    My reaction to the videos

    Spoiler:


    Kidding, kidding. I agreed with a lot of his points. Though I would argue that Stinky Pete was the same throughout, being extremely dedicated to his goal of finally getting to that museum, but the gloves came off once it was clear Woody didn't want to go. He was quite the manipulator, in contrast to Lotso who was pretty much just a liar.

    Overall, if Princess and the Frog or Tangled were made with the same style as earlier Disney films, I have no doubt Dr. Facilier or Mother Gothel would be show stoppers just like the classic villains. The two had some show stopper moments themselves. But what we got in return with the main characters of both movies definitely made up for the overall lack of screentime F & G got, though both villains still managed to be threatening. And I have no problem with Hans or that sheep person being fake-out villains, as the trope hasn't run its course yet especially since Hans is the first in the Disney Princess films of this nature and Zootopia was specifically a mystery caper where the secrecy was intentional.

    I am surprised Doug didn't mention Mulan's villain - Shan Yu, which I had to look up to remember. That guy definitely wasn't memorable at all. Ratliffe in Pocahontas could also be an example, though there was something about him that made me attracted to him.

    So...can there be a standout hero and a standout villain in the same movie? There can be - and several Renaissance movies did in my opinion. The way to do it is to make the hero's and the villain's stories intertwined with each other from the beginning. Tiana only knew Facilier as a mysterious shadow man and he barely ever interacted with the heroes. Anna met Hans at the beginning of Frozen. Gothel, though she had a more intimate relationship with the hero than even most Renaissance villains did, was absent for a large part of Tangled. Meanwhile, Jafar and Jasmine were about equally important in terms of palace affairs. Scar was a pretty big part of Simba's family's life but got moments to himself that Gothel never did. Captain Hook had been rivals with Peter Pan long before the film began and there was no need for exposition. Gaston was the main man in Belle's town from the start who still got scenes even when the focus went to the Beast's castle.

    The only movie that I think had a gripping hero and villain that barely interacted was the Little Mermaid, and that's because Ursula only shows up in the second act and Ariel becomes a lot more boring after she gets her legs, so they basically swapped out.

    Hopefully, future Disney movies can occasionally return to the intertwined hero and villain that share the spotlight - I've loved petty much all of Disney's films in the Second Renaissance, but a little more variety in character structure would be really nice to have.



    Spoiler:

  13. #6253

    Default Re: Disney animation thread



    It may take me a while to get used to the deeply voiced Nephews (It's Dipper from Gravity Falls all over again),
    but Scrooge sounds bloody fantastic. That's David Tennant (the 10th Doctor), and he already seems like an excellent fit.
    David is Scottish, so the accent comes naturally too. Expecting him to have a lot of fun with this show.

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  14. #6254

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Yzma is almost more of an antagonist than a villain simply because Kuzco is actually a lot worse than her when that film begins and her animosity towards him is pretty well justified.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  15. #6255
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    Yzma is almost more of an antagonist than a villain simply because Kuzco is actually a lot worse than her when that film begins and her animosity towards him is pretty well justified.
    I know. It makes her and Kuzco all the more charismatic in terms of their pro/antagonist dynamic. She's still a bonafide villain to the bone though, which is seen in how she treats peasants when she pretends to be empress when Kuzco is out during the beginning of the film.

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  16. #6256

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    She's also old, ugly, & mean so she's a villain by default.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  17. #6257
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    I still wish that she got her own song in the movie. Always love listening to this scrapped song for Kingdom of the Sun:


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  18. #6258
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    I'm surprised Syndrome didn't get a mention; besides being pretty likable in his lust for power and adoration, he was a pretty good example of someone who certainly didn't start out evil and how obsession with a hero twisted him when the hero couldn't cater to his obsession.



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  19. #6259
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
    I'm surprised Syndrome didn't get a mention; besides being pretty likable in his lust for power and adoration, he was a pretty good example of someone who certainly didn't start out evil and how obsession with a hero twisted him when the hero couldn't cater to his obsession.
    That... is a actually a REALLY great example. For some reason, my mind was just centered around pure Disney movies besides the couple or so Pixar movies Doug mentioned lol.

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  20. #6260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    However, I feel like the video has this implication (even though I'm sure Doug isn't close-minded enough to think this) of how there can seemingly only be a good villain if they're despicable from the start. While that's often entertaining to see, there can be villains that are both memorably charming and complex in motivations/philosophies. You just have to make them entertaining characters and not just focus on them being a vehicle for a cool twist. Have the twists be inventive payoffs to their characters being built-up and visibly developed rather than them being two-faced all of a sudden with very little connection to their previous type of portrayal. Stinky Pete and Hans didn't fall flat because they were twist, they failed because the execution was half-assedly disjointed. There can be a balance between the merits of both worlds between classic and modern Disney villains/stories.
    I will defend Evil Hans to my death, solely based on the audible gasp the reveal produced from my theater. No, but seriously, I can concede that Good Hans/Evil Hans are radically different in personality, and that neither reach the over-the-top personality heights of a Hades, or a Gaston...but I still consider him tremendously effective, and anything but half-assed. Rewatching the film you see that the pieces are all there from the beginning, with how shallow and and sudden his relationship with Anna is. And because he's such a cookie-cutter standard issue Prince Charming, the reveal that he's a slimy motherfucker hits that much harder. In contrast to later villains like Bellwether and Big Hero Six Guy, Hans' big evil moment is deeply personal and cutting for Anna; he made up for what he lacked in quantitative villain-ness with one hell of a showstopping moment. Its not a trick you can pull indefinetely, but in the case of Hans, it fits so well into the themes and character arcs of the movie that it works.

    Also, I have a fondness for Turbo/King Candy; as a whole he's not that amazing, but his third act reveal is just such an insanely hard turn into prime-cut cartoon villainy that I kind of love it. The moment when he grabs Ralph by the hair in order to force him to watch Vanellopes demise, and goes "let's watch her DIE together!!!" made me literally go "HOLY SHIT!" in the theater.

    And Mother Gothel is underrated. Shes like a passive-aggressive Frollo.

    Theres good stuff in the new disney villains, but we definetely could use another Jafar or Ursula.


    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    And I am never a fan of either the hero or villain hugely overshadowing one another and only being thought of as tools for one another. They should both be charismatic and be complementary for the story's quality in their story roles and screentime. Don't think of one side as just a means to an end in making a hero or villain look good. Make the means of developing compelling characters your ends for both parties. Disney just has lackluster villain writing nowadays and doesn't seem to really care about investing time into making cool villains like they used to. As Ferb once said in Phineas & Ferb, a hero's a hero, but everyone loves a great villain.
    I think they've taken the lesson from the Marvel movies: Heroes can drive franchises, so lets invest all the time in getting audiences on board with them so they'll tune in for the next movie. Of course, the shame is that villains can motivate audiences too - Loki is proof of that. Or the fact that people will favor episodes from shows based on what villain they featured ("A Rat King episode? Ugh, no thanks!")

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